The Future of Creative: Faster, Smarter, and Still Human

Heather Riexinger: Flynn. This is the first podcast since Katie has gone out on a tourney leave

Chris Flynn: a little bit of the bosses out of town.

Heather Riexinger: So we’re having a sale. I don’t know what she was thinking, leaving the two of us alone, but it’s going to be, you know, we’ve already had a blast here, so we’ll just continue for the next few weeks until she sees this podcast and comes back early. But, uh, thanks for coming on. Oh, I’ve worked for you for like 13 years now, Chris. And one thing I’ve always admired is your ability to look forward, stay ahead of trends and really be looking around the corners. And so today I’d love to talk to you a little bit about creative, what you’re seeing in the world today and what you think is coming next, uh, down the pike.

Chris Flynn: Well, I think what excites me most is, you know, we’ve talked about being rapid, being quick, being agile. And I think that excites me the most, um, particularly in shorter form video and what’s going on in social that, that you can make an impact and really make an impression and it’s probably going to continue that way because our attention spans since we’ve gotten our, you know, smartphones has really changed. And that’s 20 years. It was Oh seven when it came out and it’s continued to get shorter. And shorter tensions, man. So you really have to be on point. You don’t have time. Do you really got to hit it, hit it hard or clever or breakthrough? Um, so that’s exciting. That that’s fun to do.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah.

Chris Flynn: It’s a challenge, but it’s fun.

Heather Riexinger: Well, you’re, so you’re, um, chronic tick tocker like I am. Um, but I find that on tick tock, I’m actually watching longer form videos. So like you, we both have very short attention spans naturally. Um, what gets you hooked to watch a five, 10 minute video on tick tock?

Chris Flynn: Well, to the point that I was making earlier. And what you’re saying is yes, you’ll watch, you know, you get the three minute limit, you’ll watch it, but not if they don’t grab you in the first five seconds. So that’s really what that shorter messaging is. How do I get them? How do I get them to stay?

Heather Riexinger: so getting a little more specific about what’s changing big things, you know, quality of what’s being pushed out feels like it’s diminished a little bit in a lot of areas, the pace expectations. You know, when you look at a creative being produced across the industry, what patterns are you noticing?

Chris Flynn: it’s a little bit of both. Okay. The very big cinematic kind of look is still out there. It’s, it’s on some of the bigger things that are out there, but I will also say that the innovation and what’s happened with technology and the quality of it. You know, what used to cost us, you know, a million dollars to build an edit suite. I can do better on my phone. Right. So, um, the quality is there and then it really kind of comes down to what is the idea? It always comes down to that because I can shoot something that is absolutely stunningly shot, or at least should be, but if the idea isn’t there.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. So what? So do you feel like creatives getting better or just faster?

Chris Flynn: I think it’s getting faster. I don’t know that it’s, uh, getting better or worse. The trend, I think that still is the steady trend of continuing. You find ways to innovate from a creative standpoint to get your message across. It’s an evolution. It’s not really like it’s one or the other, right? Um, it’s just finding new ways in.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. So with all of this technology that you’re talking about, what do you think is the biggest stressor on creative teams today?

Chris Flynn: Because there are so many platforms and, and it’s a requirement in 20, 26, 25, 24 to say AI, um,

Heather Riexinger: we haven’t said that yet. It’s been almost five minutes.

Chris Flynn: So I think because there’s so many different platforms and, and that are coming out for AI as far as ideation, um, or as far as image manipulation, um, there is such a plethora of it. That it is hard to focus on what is going to be the bleed platform and, you know, certainly finding what ecosystem are we going to live in? Is it going to be, you know, that we’re staying in, in this one and it’s all integrated or are there enough, uh, APIs to, to do it so we can hook into the, to the, uh, data and the information that we have to make it great and the inputs. And then, you know, particularly with AI, it all comes down to super smart prompt writing, you know, so then it gets back to an intelligent human. Um, and then what is good taste? What is bad taste?

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. Are you, do you feel like there’s anything repetitive, like since AI has become so prevalent and creative, do you feel like creatives becoming more, um, boring or consistent, are we missing some of those big, risky, big swing campaigns that we typically see? I don’t think so.

Chris Flynn: No, I think what it is is still, it’s still a tool. And while it is a, you know, learning, it is learning from itself. Uh, it still is really hard with emotion. And so the process is still the same. It’s a tool used within that process. Good.

Heather Riexinger: Um, kind of switching gears would love to get your opinion on, you know, what’s actually breaking through and what you like, um, and, and what you’re seeing today. So when something does break through creatively, what does it usually get right or what does it consist of for you?

Chris Flynn: Um, I’m going to go with emotion, you know, emotional, emotional people, heart’s on our sleeves. Emotion is always something and it doesn’t have to mean I’m going to tear up, but those always kind of get me. Yeah. It can just be the little smile. It might be the button at the end that gives me just a little, okay, you know, the world’s still got funny people in it and that’ll work. But I do think emotion is always what’s going to break through to people. Um, it’s the sea of same. If you’re just reiterating facts, you know,

Heather Riexinger: what’s a good, uh, good emotional campaign that you saw recently that you really liked. I’ll give you the one that, um, actually Katie sent it to me and it didn’t hit me the first time. And then when I saw it the second or third time, it’s a dad taking his son on a Disney cruise.

Chris Flynn: Oh God.

Heather Riexinger: I saw that. That one. Oh my goodness.

Chris Flynn: I Pauled right through it.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. The first one I was like, I sent it to Katie. Well, I was like, Oh, this is kind of cute. And then I saw the second or third time and it hit me a lot harder.

Chris Flynn: It’s the lifetime story. They tell the story beautifully of being a child and then being more of a kid than being an adolescent and going through the life. Yeah. It really is quite beautiful.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah.

Chris Flynn: Yeah.

Heather Riexinger: I love that one. What’s what, what’s one, uh, that got it wrong recently?

Chris Flynn: Oh no, I don’t speak ill. No.

Heather Riexinger: Okay. All right. So we’ll go there.

Chris Flynn: Um, because everybody tried, at least they tried.

Heather Riexinger: Oh, you’re so kind.

Chris Flynn: It’s like, you know, so you can’t do that.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. Just for the viewers. That’s not how you always speak to us in the office. Oh, okay. Just kidding. Yeah. Um, do you, you know, are we in markets a lot of times, um, you know, when creative is out, we’ll try to kill it quickly or say it’s, it’s not working. Do you think with all of the data that we have now? Is it, how is it affecting creative? Is it good, bad, you know, ugly?

Chris Flynn: It’s helpful in a hindrance. Sometimes something needs to have traction. And when you’re going by the data alone very quickly, um, we all want results really quickly. We can all see results up to the minute. We know the results of something going out, but there are other factors that go into that. Is there something that happened on the news that everybody just got sucked into and was like paying attention to, and they weren’t seeing the message. There are things that are a little bit out of your control. So it’s gotta be both. It’s gotta be informed, but you gotta give it enough to get traction before you do it. Sometimes I think we get a little too reactive on, uh, bailing on something too quickly. Yeah.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah.

Chris Flynn: But you know,

Heather Riexinger: let it, let it linger. Like we just talked about with the Disney cruise, sometimes it’s a few times that you watch it.

Chris Flynn: But seriously, on the other side is sometimes we let that message go way too long. We’re not keeping it fresh. So you constantly need to be keeping it fresh, but you gotta leave it enough time to get traction.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. Yeah. Um, going into AI, our favorite topic. I know. Well, we gotta go. We gotta circle back to it. Um, where do you think it genuinely helps creative teams? Our team here, where is it helping us today? Yeah.

Chris Flynn: I think what it does best right now, cause it’s going to get better and it’s going to do things that we probably don’t even imagine right now that it’s going to do, uh, I still think it’s best in ideation and getting that idea starters or taking your own ideas and popping it in there and saying, give me a variation on it. Just to look around a little bit. What, what is it that I missed and it might spark something. I don’t think we’ve ever taken something directly from AI and went perfect. Print it.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah.

Chris Flynn: You know, it doesn’t, it’s really about ideation and giving you more volume to choose from and, and more pathways or more roads to go down and explore. So I think that’s where it’s best used.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah.

Chris Flynn: Um,

Heather Riexinger: and I know a lot of the art directors will kind of turn up the crazy and use it to generate ideas that they can then pull back into something that’s actually, um, realistic and market.

Chris Flynn: Right.

Heather Riexinger: It’s awesome. Um, what part of creative do you think always it’s imperative that there’s human judgment and is it one piece or where do you think the human aspect must always live through everything? Through everything.

Chris Flynn: Yeah. Um, we work at an emotional, I believe that emotions is what really drives creative. Um, yeah, I haven’t seen a really emotional machine yet. Um, so yeah, everyone use that tool along the way. I’m not saying, oh, you only use it at IDA. You use it throughout the process.

Heather Riexinger: But yeah, you need that human touch it every single point.

Chris Flynn: Human intelligence is still based in reality of where we are today, five years from now, two years from now, it might be different.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. And there’s a lot of tools in meta and other platforms where they’ll just create, build new creative for you, um, and suggest it. And, um, which is great, which is great, but we’re, we’re not, you know, optimizing that way. You still

Chris Flynn: need to use good judgment and, and, and be able to improve it. Yeah.

Heather Riexinger: Um, all right. So you’ve worked with clients for a very long time. You’ve been in this business. You’re not old. I’m not old. I’m getting old. Um, but where, you know, what do you have you noticed about how good creative gets approved? Is there, is there a process behind that creative to getting it to market? The

Chris Flynn: process for me is inclusion and working as a team with a client. The best creative that we get to do is when we’re working closely. Um, look, we’re great at what we do, but our clients are great at what they do. So when you put them together, we really can nail it and, and put something out there that’s great. I’m never going to say that. We know every aspect of their business, certainly a way of clients. And we’re blessed with long-term clients that we do know their business pretty almost as well as they do, but they still know it a little bit better than we do. Um, so as long as they’re inclusive along the process, there’s buy in early, we’re all in agreement. Now we can really expand out and, and, and see what really drives and what really resonates with the business. And see what really drives and what really resonates.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. The different perspectives are what’s key. We just presented creative to a client last week and, um, she brought up a really valid point that we had not thought of, um, in our, uh, creative. And we were able to just tweak it ever so slightly, um, to take that into account and make it better and stronger and resonate, you know, in that specific market.

Chris Flynn: I do think what we have to be careful of in our industry is, um, it’s a bit of a blessing and a curse, arrogance. Yeah. Right. You need to be confident, but you can’t be arrogant to think that, you know, everything.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. So on that note, uh, one of the final questions I have here for you is, um, what are the perfect conditions that leadership should have in place for creatives to be strong? So, you know, what does, what does it look like?

Chris Flynn: Okay.

Heather Riexinger: So for me, you feel very passionate about this.

Chris Flynn: I do, because, um, I think the best environment to create is a great culture. I think that’s throughout any department within an agency is to have good culture overall, but I think I have some concerns, um, for newer folks coming into the industry that, uh, we’re in a hybrid situation, which is, which is great, have a culture that is understanding and, you know, Oh, you’ve got a doctor’s appointment, go to your doctor’s point. You got to see your kid. You go do what you need to do. But I do have some concerns for the younger generation coming in on, uh, too much remote work. I see it on zoom calls or, you know, on our team calls if we’re doing it, cause we’re in, in office three of the days. Um, but I also see it in person where it works extremely well. And it has worked that way. If you’re a junior art director, let’s say, and you come in, you came to school, right? You went to school, you did your book, you got it. It’s great. It’s really nice work. It’s beautiful. But our industry is changing so rapidly, so quickly. And it has for so many years that we have always found congratulations. You’ve graduated college. We’re really proud of you now. We kind of need to train you on what really is in our industry as far as an ad agency and marketing. Um, so getting them up to speed is more difficult getting them to embrace and understand our industry, uh, takes a little more work. And just if you’re a junior art director and you’re not sitting with somebody who might be senior, a 30 second conversation of, Hey, what do you think of this? Um, Oh, I like that. You know what? You could do this and, um, maybe consider the secondary color, um, for the background. Oh, that quick conversation can’t really be had efficiently in teams. And I think people, the osmosis of just sitting next to somebody who’s senior and has done it before and has that innate ability to really elevate the work. So I would encourage anybody who’s new to the industry and new at whatever agency there at, do your damages to get in there, go in there, um, you know, a little bit later, you might want to, okay, I don’t need to quite go in as much, but, but sit with people who have done it before that have some experience. He’ll one you’ll be recognized and two you’ll, you’ll flourish more quickly.

Heather Riexinger: Well, I think even for more senior creatives, it’s, we find some of the younger, uh, more junior creatives have things to teach as well, but also, um, we tend to be very careful of not bothering each other when we’re not together. And I feel like that’s where the collaboration falls. It breaks down a little bit where, you know, I don’t, I don’t want to call an art director with just a thought that I have and interrupt them. But if I’m walking by their desk, you know, it might be something that I spit out and we ends up being a 20 minute conversation and we go a different way. So I do think a lot of that in person is important.

Chris Flynn: You, you get to the point you want to make and to better places quicker. If you’re, if you’re together and collaborate.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. And it builds those personal relationships that help when it gets tough to culture. Yeah.

Chris Flynn: It’s like, I want to, I want to go in. Yeah. I want to see people plus all right. I’m, I’m going a little off topic here, but this is more for, um, the younger generation of who’s coming up and coming is that look, we’re human beings. We’re going to have conflict. Yeah. We’re not going to agree. I have having a team’s call and going red button doesn’t resolve the conflict. You still have to, when you’re into working together, you’ll see somebody 15 minutes later, you know, I was kind of thinking of that. I probably was a little strong on that and I really shouldn’t have been. I mean, that’s just reality. So, you know, build relationships, learn how to problem solve.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. Sometimes you need to sit in the room with the awkward feeling and that helps forces you to resolve it, not just walk away.

Chris Flynn: Right. It’s like, who’s going to talk first?

Heather Riexinger: Yeah, exactly. Um, so, all right, good. Well, uh, just a couple of final questions here as we look ahead and, um, what’s coming next, who knows? But when you look three to five years out, um, how do you think creative work will need to evolve to stay valuable and relevant?

Chris Flynn: I think it’s going to be a little bit driven by technology, more things go. Um, it’s the broadcast industry is a little wonky right now, uh, as far as, uh, where things are being delivered, how content’s getting to the homeowners. So we’re going to have to see how that shakes out. There’s so much consolidation going on right now with, you know, we’re in a brother, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s really going to be interesting as to where it goes, people are opting out of ads. They’re saying, yeah, I’ll spend $12 more a month. So I don’t have to see ads. So I think there’s going to be a little bit of where exactly are we going to get to that audience and how are we going to communicate to them and what’s the length? Right. Where’s the sweet spot? Is it that 10 second intro before a television show? I don’t know. Yeah.

Heather Riexinger: Do you think traditional, um, tactics are going to make a comeback with more of the skippable opt out technology and digital?

Chris Flynn: I think you get to the point quicker or get to the hook quicker. Uh, I think if you’re going to lay out, Oh, is this is formulaic? I think you’re going to see where we used to be more, um, we’re going to tell you what it is, we’re going to have a little concept. We’re going to give you the information and we’re going to have a button at the end and give you a little smile to make you leave with a little bit of entertainment. There may be an inverse switch to that. How are we going to get you to get that smile early and to stay with us? You know, I think there’s going to be a little bit, a little bit of shifting, but the messaging is going to be the same. And, and again, you know, these are, if you’re using great fundamentals and, and getting your point across and doing really good creative. People are going to hang out.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. So finally, what advice would you give to creative leaders, um, who are trying to balance great ideas and great creative with, um, metrics and business results?

Chris Flynn: Okay. This is a tough one. Um, it’s hard to argue with numbers sometimes. And, and I think you have to come up with the, okay, what is the great control? I mean, this gets back to tactics from direct mail from years ago, you know, it’s still, you’ve got to have, what is the real control? Okay. We’re, we’re satisfied with these numbers and you’ve got to keep testing on it and keep testing on and try and push those numbers. And that might make you really break out to something incredibly creative. That’s going to get to that. How do we make what we’re doing now the next control?

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. I almost think for me anyways, the numbers make it more of a game and the competition is what makes it so fun is more so, you know, we’re on the creative side, it’s what sometimes it’s what can I push through? What great idea can I get to market? And for me, you know, I’m like, what can I beat?

Chris Flynn: What can I get the high score?

Heather Riexinger: How do I get the high score in this? Can I, can I get a little more market share? Can I get, um, more clicks, more sales, whatever it might be? So cool. Anything else you want to chat about today about, you know, creative, the future of creative?

Chris Flynn: No, I think I do think you covered, we covered an awful lot about the future of creative. I think, I think I just encourage people to play, just play. There’s so many platforms out there that, and apps out there play. I know it’s pain in the butt. Do the three day trial and cancel it, but play with them. That’s how you’re going to see what’s coming.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. Stay on top of it. So, all right. Well, thank you, Chris. I’m sure one of us needs to get back upstairs that, you know, when the cat’s away, who knows what’s going on.

Chris Flynn: Yeah. I’m sure.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah. Who knows? So eating bonbons, right?

Chris Flynn: Hardly.

Heather Riexinger: Yeah, I know. They’re all working harder than us. Let’s be honest. Um, all right. Well, thank you. We’ll talk soon. Bye.