Perks, Purpose & Profit Sharing: Inside Flynn’s People-First Culture

Speakers: Katie Flynn, Kelly Goforth

Kelly Goforth, chief financial officer here at Flynn, longtime friend, welcome to the podcast for the very first time. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I figured now is a good time. It’s come up a few times actually. We had an RFP recently where it came up and we were having a conversation where it came up yesterday, just talking about like building a great culture and what it means to create a great place to work.

You have been here a bit longer than me. Where are you at these days? Nine years.

Nine years. Nine years this week.

That’s nine years. Oh my gosh, well, congratulations. We’re lucky to have you.

But I feel like, whatever it was, six or seven years ago, you and I sort of set out on this quest to go from being a good place to work. Like people always enjoyed it here. We have a very long tenure of folks, which is something we’re really proud of. Our average tenure right now is like, I think it might be up to like 14 years, which is insane. Yeah.

But we really wanted to put some concerted effort into making this a great place to work. And that meant some changes in benefits and some changes in how we approach our values and things like that over the years.

So figuring we could just like, share that a little bit. Okay.

Where should we start? What do you think was the biggest change that made an impact?

Well, I was thinking about this and there’s been, there’s different kind of buckets, I feel like. There’s the benefits piece and there’s kind of the fun stuff. And then there’s just the general, like how does it feel to work here? Like the kind of, you can’t really put your finger on it, but how does it feel? And I think that’s where it started. I agree.

Because it became that whole, nobody is too good to be a jerk situation.

Yes, which we say often.

We say it often and it was really scary to have people that are maybe really, you feel are so important to the operations in your business that you can’t have them leave.

Yeah.

And we discovered that even though it’s scary, it’s always the right decision. And so once I feel like we started kind of

feeling comfortable in doing that and being courageous

and also hiring in that way, making sure that we were hiring the right type of people, nobody wants to be around people that are jerks. And we spent a lot of time together as coworkers, spent a lot of time here working and it needs to be enjoyable.

It sort of sucks the air out of the room too. And it doesn’t have to be that pronounced. It can be really subtle or it can be like a little passive aggressive, but it just makes people feel sort of like icky. And I do think we’ve done a really good job of having sort of a, almost like a zero tolerance policy for that. It has been a number of years really since I’ve had to sit down with somebody and be like, that was not a cool thing to do and let me explain why.

But when that has happened, I feel like we correct really quickly and move in a different direction quickly also if it doesn’t work. We are just trying, Kevin used to say this all the time, like we want this to be the best place that people have ever worked. We want people to say that when they’re in their 70s and 80s looking back on their time here. And so it does mean making hard decisions sometimes.

And I think the other piece of that is we might not always know things that are happening, but people have to feel comfortable and doors are open and that their voice is gonna be heard to come and tell you like this happened and to feel that we’re listening to them because you can’t be eyes and ears everywhere all the time. So that’s part of it too. Having that voice, having that all brains in the game, I mean, that’s kind of another flip side to that, but just because you’re maybe an entry level person doesn’t mean that your opinion and your thoughts don’t matter. So that goes from the whole gamut to client work, if something bad happens to you. Right.

We’re always gonna listen. So that’s another piece of it, I feel like.

Yeah, I agree with you there. And I think also there’s, we have been through a few iterations, I guess, of the list of values that we put out there in the last five years or so. A lot of them are similar concepts. It’s not like they like materially changed.

But I think you’re right in terms of hiring practices, like we really focused on a few things. You have to have the skills that are required of the position, obviously.

But a lot of what we were looking for is, number one, are you just a good human being? Like, do you put off a good vibe and you get on well with the team and all of those things?

A lot about having a growth mindset and being self-driven, like we are an organization where you’re not gonna have somebody towering over you, micromanaging you all the time. We want people who can kind of go off and do their own thing and feel motivated to do that without having to be told what to do.

They find the excitement in figuring it out on their own.

Yeah, exactly. Especially because we’re a small organization. It is required of us to be nimble in order to service our clients in the way that we want to.

And so it’s been a fun expedition, finding those people. I always think it’s so hard. You get some exposure with a pre-screening call and then an interview.

It’s one of my least favorite things about my role is, I usually interview, I would say the vast majority of people who we bring in. It is so hard to know. It is. If they’re a good fit in an hour. You just can’t learn what you need to learn in that period of time. And I always think it’s interesting. I know lots of companies have, not like tests, but like games that they do or have people present or all these things. And still it’s like, I think sometimes you just got to go for it and see what that person is like.

Sometimes it’s a gut feel. And a lot of times, I mean, your gut can be wrong and it’s happened, but generally. And we try to have a lot of different people talk with them without it being oppressive of too many iterations. But it is important because we’re so collaborative to have a lot of people have that input and meet the person and see what their gut feel is.

Yeah, totally agree. Now, so that’s sort of the first bucket. The second bucket is sort of like benefits related. And I think there are a few things that we have put in place there. So maybe we can talk about those next.

Yeah, I think the biggest one was the flexible PTO. I think it was 2018 that we started that. Okay, it’s a long time. Other people might call it unlimited PTO. We call it flexible PTO. We put a lot of thought into that policy and how it was gonna interact with other things like leaves and other anomalies that might come up for any type of case. But we’ve really had success with it. And there’s different peer groups that I’m in that talk about trying to implement these plans and are always like, how does this work? And, but our people respect it. And it just takes the pressure off not knowing that, oh, I don’t have this many days accrued as I need to take this vacation and having to talk with your manager about it. I mean, we still have an approval process. You still have to put it in a calendar to get approved to make sure we have coverage. I mean, there’s lots of steps there, but you don’t have to worry about if you have enough in your bank.

And generally, and don’t people don’t abuse it. So we’re really lucky that we have a great staff that appreciate it as such a nice benefit and aren’t gonna abuse it.

Totally. And I think it’s one of those things where, you know, we never really cared if people were like going to a doctor’s appointment or something in the middle of the day, but it does take the pressure off of being like, well, no, it’s fine. I’ll just put in an hour of PTO and you know, it’s not gonna be a big deal. I’ll just let people know where I am.

And I think we just, we have this approach of just treating people like they’re adults, right? Like you can handle your stuff. You know your workload. So like, as long as you’re getting that done to satisfaction in terms of the level of quality and the timing and all of those things, and as long as you’re available for client meetings as needed and internal meetings and all of those things, like you can kind of just handle your business, you know? Like do what you gotta do.

and I think also just from an operational perspective, it’s less administrative work to have to track all of that. It is, yeah. You know, so benefits to all, really.

I think going hand in hand with that too is just kind of that, you kind of touched on it, but that flexibility and it comes from top down. Like for you as an owner, understanding people have lives. Sometimes things come up and it doesn’t mean they’re not gonna get their job done, but right this minute I have to go home because my kid is sick and they got called from school.

And I remember when I first started here, that happening to me, I had a two year old and a four year old at the time, and one of them was sick and I had to suddenly leave because I got the call from daycare and feeling very anxious about it because I don’t think I had been working here very long. I was like, oh my God, I already had to leave. So I get home and I got an email from Kevin saying, how’s he doing? Like hours later I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Like that is like, it just shows that he really cared.

Yeah, it doesn’t happen everywhere.

Yeah, absolutely not. So that’s part of that feeling it comes across to everybody.

Yeah, I feel like I understand that even more so now that I have become a parent is how important that flexibility is. Like Grayson has the bubonic plague every four weeks.

Like I was out for a whole week, two weeks ago, because especially with the whole 24 hour rule, like you just can’t take them back forever. They’re just gonna be home for the rest of their lives.

So yeah, I mean, it certainly makes a difference. And obviously post COVID and since everybody now has set ups at home, like it does make it that much easier to be like, okay, during nap time, or if you have an opportunity, you can still check in and do what you need to do.

You’re not totally right about off the record. You can still get some stuff done.

Yeah, remember when we used to like have an internet or we would like sign out? Yeah, VPN. Oh my gosh, so wild.

Times have changed quite a lot in the last eight years. It actually is wild.

But yeah, I think that one’s a huge one. I think that’s gone a really far way with our folks feeling supported. I think another one is profit sharing. So we put that program in place probably five years ago, I would guess. Yeah, that’s right. And that’s been really great. We’ve basically just said like, if the agency is doing really well, we want you to do really well. Like you are all the reason why the agency is doing well. And so like we all deserve to sort of like…

Benefit from that. Yeah, I was gonna say like bask in those spoils. You know what I mean? And so not every year is amazing. Like we haven’t had profit sharing these last couple of years because it’s just not been strong financial years. Been tough times in the agency business as anybody who works in the agency business knows.

But it’s there and it’s something that people know that if we are going to do well, that we are going to be sharing in that. Which again, it happens in a lot of places and obviously there are organizations that are ESOPs and there are different programs in place. But we have one that basically the better we do, the better everyone does. Which I like that system as opposed to hitting a number and then everybody gets a flat fee. It’s just the better we do, the better you do.

Right. And as part of my other half of my role, the finance side, we do do quarterly updates to the employees so they understand how we’re tracking for the year. So they’re not totally blindsided that, “Oh yeah, there’s not gonna be profit sharing this year.” Or, “This year is gonna be good.” Right, it’s not like Christmas vacation. It’s not a big, jelly of the month club.

No, we try to keep people, communicate that, at least on a quarterly basis.

Yeah, totally. And I think those types of things that help incentivize people to feel like they’re a big part of it help too. We’ve always had a new business commission program. If somebody initiates the first call and we close it, you get 5% net revenue for two years, which is amazing. And this is a relationship business. So many of our client relationships have come from relationships like that, which I think is wonderful too.

It’s not something everybody feels totally comfortable taking advantage of, but it is there as people want to.

All right, let’s see what else. We also addressed parental leave. So maybe you can talk a little bit about that because we tried to make that as sort of all encompassing as we could, I think.

Yeah, and it kind of goes hand in hand, because I mentioned with the flexible PTO policy, because you could just, if we didn’t have a policy in place, say, “Well, I’m gonna take flexible PTO “for the next three months.”

Another piece of that is we do pay for life insurance and short-term disability coverage for all employees. So the short-term disability goes hand in hand with maternity leave.

But we do have fully paid eight weeks for a birthing mother. And then we have a parental leave portion, if it’s an adoption or for the father of a birth, where they get a shorter portion. But we kind of started there, I think, and you and I both kind of thought, hopefully we can extend this even as we grow and as we feel more comfortable with how this works

to make it even better. But it was a really nice start, because before it was just, you just use your short-term disability policy and that coverage if you have it. Right.

And I think the important differentiator there is it’s eight weeks full pay, but people can still take extended time there that might get covered by short-term disability or those types of things.

Or at that point, it would probably be paid family leave, which is New York State coverage that we have, where they would get a portion of their salary to all run through coverage to the state.

Yes, yeah. And totally, we figured, we’re like 20 people right now. So there’s only so much, you are at a disadvantage as a small company in terms of benefits, unfortunately. You just don’t get those like bulk discounts that the massive companies do.

But we try to put as much supportive benefits in places we can. I think totally, we’ll continue to address those and make them as strong as we can. I have some friends who work at like massive organizations who get six months paid leave, which I think is so amazing.

And I so wish that we were able to offer something like that. The other thing I really wanna offer, and you know I’m very passionate about this, is family planning and fertility benefits. Unfortunately, there’s not really an option right now that doesn’t, it’s not, there’s nothing that’s like partial pay. You basically just have to like pay it. It’s self-funded.

Yes, yes. It’s basically, yeah, you would say to your employees, “We will cover up to X amount, “but it’s coming directly out of your pocket.” There’s no like insurance that helps mitigate some of the costs for you.

Right, which I, you know, maybe that’ll come down the line, who knows? Especially as fertility issues are becoming more and more prominent,

my son is at VIVF, and we were very fortunate that my husband, again, works at a very large company that offered a fertility benefit, so it offset some of those costs.

But it’s something we definitely keep our eye on. We’ve asked our broker to keep our eye on too, and come up with creative solutions, because it’s just one other thing that is so stressful for people. If you are going through those types of issues or challenges,

to not have to bear the brunt of the full cost of those, which are wildly expensive, you know, one round is like $20,000,

it goes a really, really long way. Fingers crossed that either the benefit options get much stronger in the next few years, or that we’re just able to come up with something creative. I know, yeah. Yeah. We’ll see.

Now, I think the third bucket you mentioned is just the fun stuff. And I feel like we were really good when we were taking all this on of being like, okay, we had the fun stuff down. Like we did a lot of that stuff already, but that we were trying to get to the feeling, like how you feel when you’re leaving work. But the fun stuff still matters, so, you know, let’s talk a little bit about the stuff we do on an annual basis.

I think another piece that we didn’t talk about that kinda goes back with the last section is

And one which I love is our shout outs. So it’s pure recognition. People can throw in a name with a reason why for that month, this person did an amazing job. We read them out at a staff meeting, gave a prize to one of the winners.

And it’s just a really nice way to recognize each other and the good work that we do. And we have other things in place with spot bonuses and stuff that comes from management, but that pure recognition is really nice.

Well, in the end of year awards that we do are also voted on by the entire staff. And then SMT goes through and makes final calls if we need tiebreakers or things like that. But totally, it just feels good to know that, you know, the people that you work with every day see your hard work.

Yeah.

One of the fun things that makes me think of that because it’s something we do also at staff meetings is we have a random lunch. So we just kinda pick random people, try to mix them up with different departments, try to do people that maybe don’t work together all the time. Pick four people, you can either go out to lunch, you order lunch in, and we do a group like that every month. So it’s just a nice way to connect on a smaller scale with some of your coworkers. Yeah. So there’s that one.

We can talk about Thursday, Thursdays. Thursday’s a good one. Those have been around since before I was here with different name and different days throughout the years.

Well, it used to be Fridays because that was, you know, heading into the weekend. Right, but now that we’re– What was it called?

I think it was Beer Friday. Beer Friday, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then during COVID we had Zoom,

I don’t know if we did them on Fridays or Thursdays, but just to try to stay connected. But we have options for a drink, you can grab a soda, you can grab a beer, sit down and catch up with everybody before the weekend. So people really like that, and it’s a nice way to, again, connect with their coworkers.

And we’re in office Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, so it makes sense for us to do that on Thursday because people are at home on Fridays. Right. Yeah.

Let’s see what else. Golf tournament. We have a golf tournament in the fall. We do a bowling event at Radio Social typically in the spring,

which was always a great event.

We’ve had company picnics before with families. Yeah. Not an every year thing, but that’s always fun. Just a local park and we get a bounce house and food truck and stuff.

I feel like we do try to welcome and integrate people’s families in as much as we can, whether it’s through those picnics, or we’ve always welcomed everybody’s children on Halloween. We do trick or treating at four o’clock on whatever day we select that’s closest to the actual day.

And even like I remember as a kid coming here for Take Your Kid to Work Day, that was always really special. Yes. And I think people, I mean, you bring your kids in here sometimes. They were here on Monday. Yeah, we’re a very kid-friendly, dog-friendly

place too. Yeah, I was gonna mention that we are dog-friendly. Not everybody brings a dog in very often, but it’s an option and it always makes everybody really happy. Oh my gosh, yeah.

some other things too that we’ve done that are more health-related, like steps and sips. Yes, I love steps and sips. Which we need to do another one.

I need an accountability partner at all times. Essentially what that is is we just track our steps and how many ounces of water are being drank, drunk,

per day, and usually it’s for like three or four weeks.

Right, and you’re assigned to a team, so then you can kind of try to rib each other, motivate each other.

It’s a good Kickstarter. It is, just to stay moving. Yeah. So yeah, we need to get another one of those on the books.

Yeah, probably, especially because now it’s not like oppressively hot outside, so we can actually walk. A fall, steps and sips. Yeah, let’s do it. But yeah, I mean, there’s been a lot, and some, again, more table stakes.

Some that I think just took time and energy for us to pay attention to like slowly, and it’s made an impact over that period, as opposed to it was one big, huge change.

But I do think 2023, we were on the at age best place to work list, which we were so, so excited about.

We’ve been really fortunate to be featured on a lot of top workplaces lists and in the Rochester area as well.

And again, I mean, we’re just trying to make this the best place that people have worked before. And so we continue to use