Navigating the Integrated Media Merge

Speakers: Katie Flynn, Zach Frost

the the movie actor name or what? The man with the movie actor name also Flynn’s director of integrated media. Welcome to the flinnet facts It’s been a long time coming because people probably don’t know that you are the curator of the content for the Flynn effect newsletter, so we’re often talking about, you know current events and what’s going on and in marketing and whatnot so Very appropriate to have you on now But we’re actually gonna be talking about something specific today, which I know is sort of top of mind for you And let’s call it a passion programmatic media buying But I thought first maybe you could just tell us a little bit about your background like how you ended up at Flynn and how You ended up in marketing and media more specifically.

Yeah, so I got my start after I graduated college actually a CGI In town, so I was doing like local SEO stuff that translated into paid search stuff But I kind of knew in the back of my mind that there was kind of something something bigger. Yeah, just in the media world you know, I’ve always been fascinated with TV radio kind of other just forms of media in general and also from a Just a personal setting wanted to explore a little bit. So at the time my wife and I said, hey, let’s let’s move Yeah, when ended up down in Nashville spent six years down there

Yeah, yeah, so six years

my cut at a an agency down there and kind of got into call it the full media Landscape so, you know TV and radio planning and buying and kind of everything in between down to local print pubs And kind of all of that stuff. So that’s kind of where I consider my my true first start sure You know kind of a bigger bigger agency job You know is in my early 20s kind of just drinking from a fire hose. Yeah as most people do Yeah, as we all know in this industry and just kind of absorbing everything I could Kind of moved up the ranks You know with that that agency from a media setting and you know got more managerial experience and worked on Kind of a wide variety of clients everything from local restaurants to you know banking national advertisers You know really across different categories, so it was very fun.

That’s awesome Yeah, and it was traditional and digital media, right? So obviously your title is integrated media strategy here And you know that’s something that I feel like is becoming more and more commonplace You got to know it all where it used to be like very digital very traditional. Yeah, you gotta be dangerous and in both

Yeah, I think you know people people look at it differently and I think there’s you know, a lot of agencies that still separated There’s agencies that are kind of combining those those skill sets if you will

yeah, we were from a media standpoint, you know full service in that regard traditional and digital I would say you know something that I always try to keep in the back of my mind is An old director of mine used to call it being T shaped which is a very common phrase It’s like you know a lot about everything. Yeah, you know, then you have a very deep understanding of kind of one thing or two things So we kind of ran the gamut in terms of media, but digital was a very strong part of that No, just total sense with the timing

well, and it’s a good segue to I guess I hadn’t even thought about it because with programmatic It’s it’s a lot of what you can buy right is actually traditional Ask inventory. Yeah, but in a more digital buying way So I don’t know maybe you could just for those that don’t know like what is programmatic? Why might marketers want to use it?

Yeah, so programmatic in its its simplest form Is an automated way to buy and sell media inventory? You know, so think everything from you know your display or banner ads to

You know streaming audio Programmatic out of home, you know to your point Yeah, most things now have found their way into the programmatic space You know TV included just with the fragmentation that we see in the the streaming world and the way that you can buy things But it’s an automated way. You can obviously get very deep from an audience targeting standpoint So there’s ways to layer on you know various types of whether it be first-party audiences or even third-party audiences from You know health care data providers, you know Visa is even a data provider. So from a retail standpoint understanding, you know, who’s buying what you know Not down to the individual level, but you know, it can be pretty specific and be a little specific Yeah,

the affinity stuff gets pretty specific. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know, we’ve all seen like oh Well, that feels awfully similar to something. I was just searching.

Yes, right, right, right But yeah, basically all forms of media have now made their way into a programmatic setting. Yeah So, you know as as advertisers as as marketers When you’re putting together media plans or thinking about the best way to you know Market a product or a service programmatic has become, you know, not an initial starting point But it has become a large piece of I think what a lot of people are doing because of that reason Yeah, just the accessibility

especially for smaller advertisers You know who maybe can’t get into national programming or you know big-time events You know programmatic has made it a little bit more Accessible even in that setting where you can do it on a local level and you can be Really targeted from both a geo and an audience standpoint and really access Various types of inventory across different channels, which is nice.

Yeah, and for you know for that reason

This is probably a sort of complicated question, but like does it tend to be more expensive?

If you were layering on Yes, it’s a big audiences and specific geos I would imagine yes, but

yeah it honestly it depends

know, I think in the programmatic world, you know Like anything as as media buyers you should have to be careful about what you’re buying and where you’re buying it You know I think we’ve all probably heard Horror stories or client stories where it’s like oh I ran in this site and that’s not necessarily appropriate right brand safety You know so brand safety becomes a large concern Yeah, there’s protocols that you have to have in place to make sure that you’re avoiding that kind of stuff But I would say in general It tends to be a little bit cheaper a little bit more affordable Then you know maybe purchasing Linear television or it all is dependent on what you’re trying to do.

Yeah, and what we’re comparing it again, right? Yeah, right.

Yeah, that makes sense, you know and as of as of late, you know that trend might be going the other direction Just depending on you know, high-level sports inventory or things like that. So it’s very dependent on what you’re trying to do And I think that’s kind of the fun part about our job is you know being Efficient in what we’re doing but also getting into premium type content, right?

Well, and I think that that the evolution if you will of Programmatic has also really evolved the job of media planners and buyers and placers, right? Like yeah it Even five years ago. It’s much more commonplace I feel like and everybody has a DSP relationship from an agency perspective and I think people understand it a lot more so I Get this question sometimes from clients and just when we’re talking in general around here Like how do you think AI is going to continue to evolve, you know? Agencies and your roles and whatever media is actually one place where that’s been happening for a really long time and programmatic said You know a great example of tapping into that type of intelligence.

Yeah, absolutely I think you know when AI kind of made its push onto the scene You know more from like a chat GPT

Generative type AI. Yeah You know, I think in the the media world, you know our we were thinking well, wait a minute. This is this has always been here You know cuz platforms that at least we’re in on a daily basis, whether it be Google meta in a programmatic space, right? You know behind the scenes have always had that right, you know in it’s made

Targeting buys a lot easier and a lot more accessible and it’s made, you know buying whether you know You’re talking about things like bid shading, you know Which is something where if it’s a $45 CPM, for example, you know You can kind of have settings that says okay, I’ll pay 45 But if that impressions cheaper, I want to win it for 40 So there’s things like that where you know behind the scenes AI and automation is doing that We’re kind of, you know controlling that from a front-end perspective

Well, I think it’s great too because then you know Those of you who are in media roles can focus on slightly different stuff, you know Because it used to be there was somebody in there make you know making changes all day every day And now we get to look at it on a little bit more of like a macro level and yeah Okay, how is this all performing? How does it feed into our clients business goals? What adjustments do we need to make on a you know larger scale?

But you know at the same time I totally get that that that takes away some of the like You know get your get your hands dirty and really get in there stuff.

Yeah, I would say that that side of it definitely Hasn’t changed, you know, I would say, you know myself our team we’re in the platform, you know daily several several times a week Yeah at the bare minimum Maybe not making as granular changes like you mentioned But certainly looking at things and making sure that we’re generating the outcomes that the the bias supposed to have. Oh, yeah But yes, it does give us a little bit more time to spend on the strategy side You know, so from a performance perspective it gives us a little bit more time to really dig into The wise and kind of the what’s next? You know versus trying to just dig out. Well, you know, how is this happening? It gives us a little bit more time on the the insight part of it.

Yeah, it’s a great tool from our perspective Okay. So part of the reason why we thought we would talk about this today is because you just recently got back from a conference Last week you went with our the DSP that we use which is basis So maybe you can talk a little bit about that and sort of what the focus of the conference was.

Yeah So I was in Chicago last week first time in Chicago.

Oh really?

Yeah Over

there again, it’s great. I love Chicago.

Yeah, it was it was great. I’ve been to New York City Obviously lived in Nashville for a while. I would have to say it it ranked pretty high. Yeah, my list of cities Oh, it’s a beautiful city.

Like the architecture is amazing. It’s super clean. It’s well thought out. Yep. I actually really love it there

Yeah, it was great. Great place. I didn’t get a ton of time to explore but went to Millennium Park. Yeah, which is kind of like maybe not their version of Central Park, but similar.

I saw your photo of the bean

Yep, got got to see the Ghana very cool kind of, you know walked around that whole space

yeah, the the basis conference was last Thursday Very cool conference. So it was mostly agency folks. So I was mostly with you know, my peers around the industry and Something that I thought was super cool the way that they they began the conference called a keynote or you know Whatever you want is they took a look at the you know 25 year history of just technology and you know how that relates to digital media and you know, it started off with the fact that going online used to be a Time and a place, you know, you kind of reserve time you were going to a desktop computer Yeah, whether that be a library or a specific room in school or a specific office at home Yeah, you know, whatever the case may be. Yeah, and you had to go online Oh

my god Remember when you would accidentally hit the like browser button on your flip phone and be like, oh my god It’s gonna cost $11 per second.

Yep. Yep. Parents are gonna be bad. Yeah Yes, I remember that all too well But yeah, so, you know when you did those things it was easier to disconnect and go back to the real world right, you know, you did what you had to do whether that’s online shop or do Research for a project whatever the case may be As soon as you were done with that and logged off right you were now offline and back into the real world to where now, you know the 2000s 2010s, you know brought cell phones and Accessing internet and social media, you know to devices that we carry around. Yeah every second of every single day So now we’re online constantly And just how that’s changed for for advertisers

The whole different world.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean a lot more simple to Maybe run some display impressions or banner ads to a desktop computer that you know Someone’s gonna log on to at certain hours of the day To where now, you know, there’s several social platforms There’s thousands hundreds of thousands of websites that we can all access with a device in our pocket so just the the battle for Engagement or getting in front of people is a lot different. Yeah, I think it kind of went from You know call it a disruption Industry, yeah, you know we were just kind of trying to get in front of and kind of disrupt or engage with people in that moment in time to now it’s a little bit more challenging because you’re trying to Integrate more. Yeah people’s daily life

and people are so inundated with information. It’s like, how do you break through all that?

Right. There’s there’s a lot, you know, there’s a stat out there I don’t have it off the cuff But you know we engage with hundreds of ads on a daily basis, right between You know TV out of home digital social

Yeah, yeah, so the you know call it the fight or the the battle for Attention is a lot harder right

stays right and as it’s not reasonable for us as agencies to have Relationships with all of those different publishing sites and I’ve been we have relationships directly with a lot of them But absolutely your point there are just so many now So that’s why you know companies like basis are very helpful.

Yeah inventory Yeah, and to go back to the the programmatic side of it, like that’s the part of it that becomes nice You know whether you’re using something as simple as a site list that has 30 to 50 sites Yeah, local level, you know local news local newspapers things like that You can kind of control that inventory or if you’re trying to run something national, you know There’s ways to to access all those to site sites from a display standpoint or you know in the OTT world or CTV space Whether you want to run on Hulu or things like that. All of that is accessible Right in the platform

one place which makes it nice. Yeah Well, I’m awesome. So in terms of like trends or what’s upcoming or new features or anything anything that stood out to you

So a genteck AI was thrown around a little bit. Yeah You know AI is the the hot topic thing. It is the thing So that was discussed a little bit But really just you know My biggest takeaway was how we evolved for the next 25 years really from a tech and a media standpoint

One of the the pieces that the keynote addressed was just how consumers don’t always come along for the ride at first You know, so when there is something new especially in the tech space, you know, there’s always the early adopters Yeah, who jump on board think everything is awesome But then there’s also the people who are a little bit more reserved a little bit pessimistic Well, is this for me, you know, how is this gonna be beneficial for me? And you know, I think

The way that they described it is really what marketers do on a daily basis It’s providing the value. Yeah of you know, why this is is helpful, right? And until you can translate that in an efficient way to people, you know I think people are gonna be naturally cautious of certain

things a little skeptical that makes sense. I mean and I think in this case Agencies not all agencies but a lot of agencies tend to be the early adopters, you know in that customer set and then I think You know larger companies in corporate America tend to there are some that are really on the cutting edge And then of course, there’s you know Some that just have a lot of red tape and it takes a while to yep, you know get get those new things through Yeah, so it makes total sense. It’s funny You just said that I had a memory hit my brain. I’m actually like not an early adopter I require a tiny bit of push like every time Teams comes out with a new You know, whatever iteration I’m like, I don’t want it to change like I know where my buttons are or whatever, you know All that stuff. Yeah, but growing up. I remember when the first iPhone came out my dad paid me and a friend to like camp out outside of a Verizon or something to get him the first iPhone cuz he’s always been very much So like I want the latest and greatest. Yeah

Especially from Apple just like always loved sure loved what they put out there. But yep remember standing out there That’s probably why I’m averse because yeah And

that’s the that’s the exact point that you know They were kind of trying to get across this, you know Eventually whether with teams you’re kind of forced to to just adapt and move on You know, but eventually generally as a society and you know as consumers We do evolve into using whatever that that new technology is and you know, it’s different time For different people, right, you know again, you’ve got early adopters. You’ve got maybe people who jump on board years later You know, but typically that shift is inevitable And it’s something that you kind of just have to roll with

I know who just sunk we’d all be You know attached at the hip to our phones. Yeah, but I don’t think there’s nothing putting that horse back in the barn. No Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Well any other final thoughts or unexpected insights or just favorite moments from from the

Conference that you would want to share.

Yeah So in the afternoon session, you kind of got to pick and choose your own journey So there was a strategy session new business and then leadership I chose to do the strategy session And I would say just you know being and talking with others in the industry Yeah is, you know half the reason that anyone goes to those things just being able to Sit in a room with like-minded people who are doing the same things you’re doing on a daily basis is very powerful Yeah, you know whether that’s bouncing ideas off of people whether that’s you know Just seeing how different people operate and just their viewpoints on how to run programmatic advertising Yeah, you know is extremely helpful You know, so I would say, you know had a lot of confidence in you know, what we’re doing currently, which is always good Yeah, you know, we’re doing a lot of very good things But also, you know had some perspectives that were shared where it’s like all that that’s interesting You know, that’s an interesting way to approach that whether it’s a new feature In the DSP or whether that’s a feature that you know, maybe we’re just not utilizing for a certain reason That could be helpful for us in the future. But always fun just to get in a room and You know talk with with your peers and agree and see what see what everybody’s doing.

That’s why I love magnet magnets a Global agency network that we belong to and so it’s like 30 some odd agencies and and it’s the same thing It’s like it’s people who you know own or our principles of agencies And it’s just so helpful to talk to people who day in and day out do exactly what you do Right because you might have a couple of people here but the Flynn experience is very different than experience of agency X and agency Y and Depending on region and size and client makeup and industry and all the things So yeah, I we were talking earlier like it’s always equal parts reassuring and Inspiring slash terrifying to go to those types of things But I feel like you what you always walk away with a lot of new ideas and fresh perspective to you know Bring to the agency.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I’m glad that you enjoyed it any final parting thoughts to share

For

the US Open this weekend,

oh, that’s a good question Is

that what you’re doing for Father’s Day?

Yes, I will be I will be watching When I can yeah, probably while chasing children, right? I don’t know. That’s a tough one. I’m a big Max homo fan. Okay It’s hard to not bet against Scotty though. Yeah, he’s just got it going on right now

Yeah, I’ve seen some videos Ben Griffin was posting on tick tock of like how just how long the rough is.

Yeah Yeah, look fine may have tuned into the golf channel yesterday at one point and they were kind of doing a breakdown of just You know, I was giving the PGA championship vibes when it came to to Oak Hill That was tough. Yeah, yeah, actually so I interned there when it was here in 2013 Yeah, and kind of a quick funny story, but it was about 10 to 15 interns It was all like hospitality focused. So we were in like the corporate chalets and sweets And you know, I think at one point I gave like a golf cart ride to like the president of Mercedes And I was like, oh this is this is yeah But one of the interns actually dropped her keys On our way out one night in the rough as we were walking home and we were down there with flashlights And it probably took us almost an hour to find your keys. Oh, and they were two feet two feet away. Yeah