From Feedback to Action: What Brands Get Wrong About CX

Katie Flynn: for a bundle, thank you for joining us today. It is the last official episode of The Flynn Effect before I go on my maternity leave. How do you feel about that? It should be special. I’m honored. Yeah, because I’m uncomfortable and I can’t breathe. So you need to do the bulk of the talking. OK. I’ll do my best. But for those who don’t know, Michelle is our director of customer experience and research. So today we’re going to put a little bit of a tilt on the customer experience side of things, because most people are somewhat familiar with research and what you can and can’t do there from a primary and secondary perspective. But not everybody really understands what the discipline of customer experience really is. So I think we’ll start there. But actually before that, we were talking about Oscar films last week. OK.

Michelle Furibondo: Yep.

Katie Flynn: So I saw Jesse Buckley won for Hamnet, which makes sense. That was heart wrenching, truly. How did you feel about anything else? Like best picture, were there any surprises for you? I know you tried to watch most, right?

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah, I watched all the best picture noms. Oh, wow. But yeah, no real surprises, I would say. It was interesting. There was a tie in the documentary short category, I think it was. Yeah, how? It’s the seventh time it’s happened, I guess, in history. Oh, OK. So it’s actually like quantitative. Yeah.

Katie Flynn: We tallied the scores. What was the best picture? Sinners. One battle after another. Oh, and then Michael B. Jordan won for best primary actor, whatever that is.

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah.

Katie Flynn: Leading? Leading. Primary and secondary actors. We talked research. You got research on the brain. Exactly. It’s funny, I met with a crew yesterday who we were doing kind of like an icebreaker. I’m like, all right, what was everybody’s favorite Oscar nomination? No one had watched any of them. None. It’s like apparently a dying art, but everybody in this room is a film person. Yeah. Enjoys watching a memory now and again. All right, Michelle, let’s dive into your history, shall we? OK. I am curious because I know that in the role you previous to Flynn, it was a dedicated customer experience professional role. So how did you get into that? Did you go to school for it? Was it something you knew you wanted to do? Or where did that path begin? Yeah.

Michelle Furibondo: So my degree is actually in IT management. So I started my career in the IT department. And then my manager at the time, after a few years there, saw this opening because it was part of what he supported as the IT applications expert for that area. And he thought I would be a good fit. I had never even heard of customer experience. I was like Googling, like what is this thing? But it sounded interesting. It was a way to get closer to the customer, which is always a good thing to do at work. And then I applied, got the job. So it was a move within my company. And then, yeah, ultimately became the manager for our customer experience program.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. OK, awesome. Well, that makes sense. I went to school for anthropology. And here I am. Was there something about it that once you got into that role, you were like, oh, I really love this? Was there an aspect that drew you in?

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah, I mean, the whole thing was really interesting. And it used some IT adjacent skills with analysis and Excel and different platforms. So that kept me interested, but also just learning all the different perspectives and how everyone is related to the customer. There are degrees of separation at a company. But every single person who is employed there is somehow connected to the customer. And that’s something I hadn’t really thought of before.

Katie Flynn: No, it’s a fair point. The company and all of its employees tend to exist for one end purpose. And that is the customer slash making money. Exactly. Yeah, and I know over the years, there are the classic examples of companies that have really great customer experience. And oftentimes, those are consumer brands, just because people have the most interaction with those, if you will, or the widest reach. I know Chewy is an example that they always give, because they do. They have fabulous customer experience. But as that discipline has evolved in the last 10 years, is there something specific that you’re like, yes, I think the companies that are paying attention to this thing or tuning into this trend or whatever it might be, are going to get ahead on that front?

Michelle Furibondo: That’s a great question. I think now more than ever, CX has become a buzzword. And so every company says it, but not every company delivers on it. And I think a lot of consumers are noticing that gap, where, hey, you are touting this as one of your pillars or your vision or whatever it may be. But if I’m having an issue and I can’t get it resolved, then I don’t believe you. And so I feel like companies who really can get their customers to trust them, whether it be through repeated excellent service or great response times or good quality products, will be the ones who really prevail in this CX battle.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, no. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. I think– well, I’ve got two thoughts. First, I read an article recently that people are totally burnt out on the CX scales that are in bathrooms at the airport and at the kiosk and whatever, which I know early on in our work with our clients for CX that we were doing some of that work of putting those feedback mechanisms in place. Do you think it’s just too much? Is everybody just–

Michelle Furibondo: I mean, I hate to say it, but I don’t even fill out every survey I get.

Katie Flynn: My shell.

Michelle Furibondo: I know. The truth comes out.

Katie Flynn: No, I don’t either. I see the smiley faces in the bathroom at the airport, and I’m like, how many people touch that? I don’t want to do it. Yeah.

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah, there is definitely a shift towards kind of reducing how many surveys and times you’re reaching out to your customers because of that fatigue. People are like, are you even doing anything with this? Because I don’t know how often you’ve gone into bathrooms in the airport that are pristine because of feedback people have given. Right. Yeah, good point. There’s definitely a shift towards other ways of collecting feedback, monitoring behaviors, looking for these other signals outside of surveys that will indicate how that experience is. Yeah. And I think that’s a big push it has been for years, and it’s just finding the right ways to track those behaviors.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. I can’t be doing what every single company is doing.

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah.

Katie Flynn: Now, anything that you think a lot of companies get wrong on the CX side of things?

Michelle Furibondo: Kind of what I mentioned before, not acting on it. So don’t just ask a question for the sake of asking it. You have to show that you’re doing something about it. So if I fill out the survey and I say I had an issue with X, Y, and Z, and then it happens time after time, I know you’re not taking that into account. So why are you even asking me? So it’s all about the action that comes after the questions.

Katie Flynn: I think that’s a really fair point. And then there’s this whole other thing that I at least think about when it comes to customer service interactions, because so much of that has become more automated or they’ve eliminated phone options, and you can only do chats or things like that. And for whatever reason, I’m the queen of starting a chat, doing something else, forgetting. They have responded and they’ve asked me three questions. And then they’ve closed the chat because 15 minutes went by and I went to do something else. And then you have to start the whole process over again. Are those types– I guess I’m just curious and thinking out loud on whether or not those types of things are going to start really bothering people and having them say, well, no, I’m not going to purchase clothes from Loft anymore because I can’t talk to anybody live to get my problems resolved.

Michelle Furibondo: I think you might see that shift. And it depends how much you love that store. Is their product good enough that you can look past those issues? And it’s hard to say with certainty the way it’ll go. But I think consumers do have a certain amount of tolerance for that as well. They know, OK, I was the one that left for 15 minutes. I can’t expect them to wait there patiently while I am like– School in me, Michelle.

Katie Flynn: No, I agree. But yeah, I mean, there seems to be less options. And I understand my companies are doing it. It saves on costs and those types of things. But it can be a little trickier. Yeah, absolutely. So that’s kind of on the generic consumer side. But we tend to work in very regulated industries. I know we have worked together on CX programs in health care, for example. In those types of situations where the decisions are really big, do you think the way that we study CX or should be looking at CX is different? Or is it just on a different scale?

Michelle Furibondo: I wouldn’t say it’s vastly different from how you look at CX in any other industry. There’s obviously compliance aspects you have to align with and other considerations like the frame of mind people are in when they’re dealing with health care versus making a closed purchase. But I think all the same principles would still apply.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. And in the work in those spaces that we’ve done, is there a friction point in those industries that we tend to see more than in– I don’t know. I’m going to call them more generic industries. Yeah.

Michelle Furibondo: I would say probably patients not understanding– sorry, the health care practitioner is not understanding where the patients are in their health care journey. So not understanding that I’ve been to the doctor X number of times, or I’ve had to deal with insurance on the phone and it’s been a pain, and not really understanding all the frustrations that occur throughout that health care journey and feeling like their experiences are totally disconnected from who’s giving them their care.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. No, I think probably on a very large scale, that’s an issue we’ve got in health care in general right now of just this disconnection between people wanting to take control of their own journeys and their own data and their own information and feeling like they don’t really have the pathways to do that because of the way that the system is built. That’s a tricky one. How are you going to fix it?

Michelle Furibondo: Every day I’m like, how can we fix this health care system in the US?

Katie Flynn: Aren’t we all asking ourselves, Michelle? Well, OK, going back to a little bit more generic, anything you think feels different even from three to five years ago since you’ve been working in this space. And wait, how many years have you been here now? This will be my fifth year coming up in April. OK, I was going to say six, but wow. OK. So yeah, from beginning to now, does that feel different?

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah, I think at least with our clients, you have to do a lot less explaining about what CX is. It has become a lot more prevalent. People understand it a little more. It’s become more mainstream. So on one hand, it’s great because it takes out the intro to most of our slide decks. That’s true. On the other hand, since it has become more mainstream, it’s also become a little more competitive. People think I can do this myself or I can look for a partner. And so just having to make sure we’re on top of all the trends and staying up to date in this fast moving industry.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. Well, they have organizations for that, right? I know you are– is it CXPA certified?

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah, my CCXP is the certification through the CXPA.

Katie Flynn: Oh, OK. So I wasn’t too far off. But yeah, they have annual events and things that people can do to stay on top of things, correct?

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah, it’s great. Lots of continuing education and workshops, conferences. Yeah.

Katie Flynn: Well, OK. So I guess my closing questions related specifically to CX– and then I actually want to talk about AI for a second because why not– is do you think there’s anything that’s overhyped from a CX perspective right now that everybody’s into but it’s like, is that really going to make an impact? Or conversely, is there something that really would make an impact that you think more companies should be doing? What’s the trends, I guess, in CX? Because with all of the headlines out there for AI, I’ve seen a little less on CX. And to your point, four or five years ago, it was in all the newsletters.

Michelle Furibondo: Well, I think they’re not totally unrelated. Every state of the CX report that comes out talks about AI. But I think one thing that doesn’t directly relate to AI that has been around for years and will continue to be around is how you prove the value of CX. So you need to be able to quantify it, say how much ROI am I getting for what I’m putting into it. And AI can help with reducing the effort, but also helping to quantify. But on the other hand, there’s a lot more beyond AI that you have to look at when you’re trying to prove that value.

Katie Flynn: Right. No, I mean, that’s such a good point. Think of all the workshops we’ve sat through that one person says this tiny thing. And you’re like, talk to me more about this. And it ends up being this massive can of worms of all this stuff that wasn’t mapped, that has to be mapped. Yeah, those journey maps always end up being so wild. But super helpful. So many sticky notes. So many sticky notes. You are single-handedly bringing down so many trees. OK, now I want to talk a little bit about AI specifically because you very kindly raised your hand to build out some agents for us here at the agency. So we met at the beginning of the year. You did a workshop with everybody, sticky notes included, on what are the pain points that we have here on a day-to-day basis. What are some potential use cases? And so now you and the team are basically moving forward with creating some of those agents. And some are complicated, and some are a little less. But I’m just curious your experience with that. Did anything end up different than you expected? Is it harder than you thought it was going to be? Is it easier?

Michelle Furibondo: A little bit of both? I’d say generally it’s easier to start, but to refine it is a little harder. So you can give any AI tool a prompt. It gets you mostly there. But then getting exactly what you want out of it, time after time, takes a lot more specificity, rules, constraints. So that’s something that’s definitely been eye-opening as we’re creating these agents.

Katie Flynn: I would imagine for you, because you’re very process-driven, and you like order, and all of those things. I’d be curious to know your disk profile or something like that, because I think we would be total opposites. But yeah, that must be kind of a challenge. But you just said this. I asked you five minutes ago, and now it’s totally different.

Michelle Furibondo: Yeah, but at the same time, it’s pretty fun, because it’s easy to make minor tweaks, and then you see what comes out of it. And you’re like, huh, that was unexpected.

Katie Flynn: I mean, we’re all just on the ride, right? Ride in the wave. Anything else that you would like to say in terms of things people should be paying attention to from your world? Of course, we didn’t touch on the research side today. We can have a total separate conversation about that. But I do feel like that’s one that people kind of know. And maybe I’m selling a short, too, because AI is also changing the way that even we’re doing research. But I think we could go into a whole other 15, 20 minutes on that. Oh, definitely. All right, Michelle. Well, if that’s all she wrote, dear listeners, I will be gone. I’m leaving. I’ll be back in July. Heather Rexinger has offered to host. Offered is like– she keeps being like, I’m going to do this, and I’m going to do that. I can’t wait to see the content that comes out when I’m off on maternity leave. But if it’s scary or bad or offensive, I didn’t green light that.