From Broadcast to Brand Storytelling: The Evolution of Video Production

Speakers: Katie Flynn, Craig Henderberg

Craig Henderberg, supervising producer here at Flynn, longtime editor, coming up on 20 years in just a few days, actually, which is kind of insane. But very happy to have you. You’re normally behind the camera, and I have convinced you to be in front of the camera this time. How are you feeling?

It’s not my favorite place to be.

No.

But we’ll see how it goes.

Now you know the rest of our pain when you guys are like, it’s fine. It’ll be fine. Just act normal. You’re like, OK.

Once you get into it, it is fine for everybody. Once you get going, and you have to ignore everything else in the room that’s going on.

And this environment’s really easy. Every time we’re asking somebody to be on the podcast, they always get really nervous. They’re like, I’m going to sound stupid. I’m like, I just go with it. It’s fine.

Very casual. You’re a great editor. You’ll cut out the stuff that sounds super stupid.

Yes, it’ll be a very short episode.

And we’ll go from there. Well, we’re going to focus on you today. We’re going to talk a little bit about just career path and what you’ve experienced here.

Video production and editing is a space that I feel like is changing so rapidly. We have conversations all the time about what’s going on in this space. And so I figured we’d give people a little peek behind the curtain. Sure. But to get started, as I said, you’ve been here for about 20 years. Just out of curiosity, what brought you here originally? And maybe what’s kept you here so long?

Well, what brought me here originally was I was at a very small production company that had been around for a while. That was kind of on its end of its life. The owner was way past retirement. And so I was looking for other opportunities in Rochester to be an editor. And you had a job posted. And I applied for it. And oddly enough,

John Marignetti, who hired me for this job,

way back in his early years, worked at the same company I was at. And at the place he was before Flynn, he had hired our editor away. So that was how I kind of got the opportunity to start editing and get the experience to then apply for here. So it’s almost like– John, I’m just opening doors for you over and over. Created the opportunity for me before he even knew he was doing it.

I love that.

So

I wasn’t really focused on marketing or working at an ad agency. And at that time, 20 years ago, Flynn or Martino Flynn then really was one of the very few, if not the only, agency to have true edit suites, true editing capabilities in-house. So it wasn’t a place I was actually looking to apply for an editing job. It just came up in the search. So I ended up here.

And ad agencies are fun places to work most of the time. And so I just kind of stayed with it. I’ve liked working with John and with Chris and Kevin and Ray at the time and everyone else that was at Flynn. And so just kind of stayed with it.

Well, and I think one thing that’s nice about being in an ad agency– and I tell this to people who, if I do informational interviews or if people are coming from client side to agency side, every day is different.

Sometimes that’s challenging, but it does keep it really interesting. You’re always working on new clients and new industries. And so it’s not like you’re having to do the same thing over and over again, which I imagine, while you’re staring at the milliseconds by on the screen, it makes a difference.

yeah, that is fun. And for our role here in the agency, we get to work on pretty much every client. I think almost every client that we have or have had has done some sort of video component, right? Where some of the creative team or the account team, they only work on certain clients. But we get to have different things to do every day, but also get to work with every client that comes through the agency. So that helps keep it interesting.

Totally.

OK, so when you think back to when you first started,

and it’s funny, I have like vivid memories of even when I would come visit when I was in high school and college, and I did an internship. The way we would talk about the editing suite was so interesting because it was a differentiator back then to have the actual technology in-house that was needed. Now you can do a lot on your phone, a ton on a laptop, and if you’ve got the right equipment, you can do a great job.

But I guess that’s kind of a parallel to how much things have changed in the editing world over the years. So what has that been like for you as someone who’s had to keep up with it over these past two decades?

Well,

the software in particular, I talk about it like a car. If you know how to edit, you can get into it any software and figure it out. You just got to find out where the buttons are, just like driving a Honda versus a Ford.

It’s just a different interface.

Yeah, it’s just an interface thing. So it’s really about having that creative skill behind you and then learning all these different pieces of software. It takes time, and they each have their own learning curve. But we’ve gone through probably five or six different main editing systems here at Flynn in the time that I’ve been here.

So you have that aspect of it. But then you also have every time there’s a new technology, a new plugin, a new capability, you’ve got to learn that too. And with everything getting faster and faster and more accessible, it does add to the amount of stuff that you just have to know how to work and operate.

my role here as well, I’m kind of the engineer. So it’s not just knowing how to operate it, but knowing how to get it working and knowing how to build an edit suite and all these other things. I’ve kind of done all those steps throughout the time here. But it all builds on each other. So you kind of take something you learn here, and you apply it there, and it helps to keep on top of all the changes.

Yeah, no, I think that’s a really fair point because

video production and editing, there’s this balance between storytelling that has to be done and the technical side of it, what you’re technically doing from an editing perspective. How do you approach that, I guess? Or do you come from a story first place? Or what does your process look like?

I would probably come from a story first place myself because I became an editor because I wanted to really work on movies and more on the Hollywood side of things and narrative.

We talk about TV and movies often.

Yes, we do. And I ended up– I stayed in Rochester because my wife didn’t want to leave the area. So there were limited opportunities to work on movies here. So that’s how I ended up, again, in advertising doing editing. But I think the story is the most important part of anything because whether it’s a three-hour movie or a 30-second commercial, if you’re not interested in it, if it’s not engaging, people are not going to pay attention or stick with it or care about it. So I think you have to come from a story side first, and then you use the technical side to enhance what you’re doing, add production value, make it more interesting, whether that’s with effects or interesting techniques that you’re adding in just to keep the viewer engaged.

feel like the best example of that– well, we also talk about Broadway musicals a lot because we both have an interest in that. I know as your kids have gotten older, you’ve gotten more ingrained in that world. A really great example of that, though, is Wicked. So Wicked’s like three hours, two and a half hours, something like that. It doesn’t feel like that because they’re weaving an awesome story the entire time. And I feel like the same thing applies when you’re selling something.

A lot of times, clients think, OK, well, if I have a five-minute video, I can tell everything. And it’s like, yeah, but it might not be engaging. And if that first minute isn’t rock solid, then people aren’t going to be watching through the entire thing anyway. So you have to find a way to hook them and keep them watching.

And I think it’s harder than people think is telling a great story.

Yeah, it is. And even when you have unlimited time, it is. And then when you’re putting the parameters around it of

60 or a 30 or 15, it gets even more difficult. And we always say, if you’re trying to tell them everything, you’re probably telling them nothing because there’s just too much information there to retain. I always feel like one or two key points are a lot more effective than trying to get your entire brand positioning into one 30-second spot.

And it’s that story side of it as well. Sometimes it’s a vibes thing. And I don’t even need to know what sets you apart. If I like your brand and I like the story you’re telling and the vibe I get from your spot, I’m going to engage more and find out more after the fact.

Yeah, we see that all the time with commercials, that you’re not really talking about the product. But it doesn’t really matter. It might be memorable or entertaining or whatever it might be, heartwarming. And it draws people in either way.

I do think it is a function of the time we are in, whether that’s people’s attention spans being shorter or just what everyone’s used to engaging with. Because I like to watch movies in my spare time. And I will bounce back and forth from new releases to old stuff that I haven’t seen or maybe haven’t seen in a while. And sometimes it’s really obvious you watch an old movie and it’s like the first 10 minutes. I’ve got so much character development, so much story development. And you learn it not just through what’s being said, but through what you’re seeing and everything on screen

But then I go to newer movies and they’re longer. And sometimes it’s like so much exposition of just everybody saying everything out loud multiple times. And is it like, did we do this because we’re expecting someone to be on their phone and maybe missing two or three of these explanations of what’s going on and why we’re here and who these people are?

So I think you can take that same idea and apply it to the shorter lengths and to whatever your marketing is. And just, again, keep it engaging, give them the information, and look for other ways to communicate what you’re trying to communicate without it all having to be in the voiceover or in text on screen.

Sometimes it can be the feeling that you’re invoking.

Right, yes.

Totally agree. It’s funny you say that.

there was some influence, or I want to say it was like, tinks, which probably means nothing to you. However, when she watches new movies, she gives them a phone rating, meaning how much was I on my phone during this? And if you’re not on it at all, it was a really engaging movie. And I do think that’s kind of how people engage things now. How much did I have to sit on my cell phone? But yeah, especially during commercial breaks when people are watching TV, I do think people automatically pick up other stuff. So you have to find ways to break through.

well, moving on, next question.

Every role comes with its challenges, right? So I thought we could just take a moment to talk about what does that look like for you? What do you find is the biggest hurdle in your world, whether that be something recent or something that comes up again and again, just so we could maybe give some advice to folks about how to approach things like that in their roles?

an interesting part of being more of the producer side of things than the editor is that role has a lot of overlap with other roles in the agency because you’re dealing with the financial side of things. You’re a little bit account service because sometimes you’re the liaison with the client, right?

And you’re working with the creative and doing the creative at the same time. So there is a lot of multifunction there where you really have to understand all those different parts of the process and the job to do that well.

I also think it’s hard– creative and especially marketing is– I think the hardest part of that is that everybody has an opinion. Wildly subjective. Everybody wants to give their opinion on things. And sometimes, whether it’s needed or not– and sometimes we say, well, are we making it better now or are we just making it different? And it’s hard to have those conversations with your clients and your colleagues. And so it’s deciding when is the right time to push back on something that you really feel strong about is making it worse maybe. And when to go, OK, it’s not how I would have done it or I certainly like this better. But I can make that change because at the end of the day, you do want the client to be happy. So it’s finding that balance of, again, when to push back and when not to. And also how to have those conversations effectively.

Totally.

So you don’t come off as someone who’s just difficult or– Right. You know, cranky, right? Or super egotistical.

good idea can come from everybody.

We’re territorial, right? Yeah. We come from such a collaborative place as an agency. But it doesn’t mean that there’s not healthy tension. And sometimes people have really strong opinions about what the right approach is. But it’s not a yes or no clear answer. It’s just somebody’s opinion on what they think will work better.

I think something you just said is a really good point. And it’s something that

actually remember who first said it to me. But it was a piece of management advice, which is, is it wrong or is it just not how you would do it? And those are two very, very different things. I try to weigh those things when I’m looking at creative or anything that we’re doing here too. Because you’re right. You don’t want to come off as where it’s going to be the right way. But sometimes one of us around here has a reason for pushing back on something like that.

And I think the really challenging ones are when you don’t have a good reason or one that you can articulate. I’m a drummer. I’ve been a drummer, at least in my past. And I think editing has a lot of rhythm and pacing to it, for sure.

It just feels better to me the way we have it versus the way someone wants to change it to. And it’s hard to make an argument or a case for that. So you just have to go, I just like it better the other way. I just like it. So then you just bite your tongue and go, OK, we can do that.

Isn’t that funny? I know. I really try hard not to be like, I just don’t like it. Sorry.

But that’s a valid response, right? Because that’s what we talked about at the beginning, if someone’s not into something or vibing with it, they’re not going to stick with it. So that is actually a great piece of feedback. I just don’t like it. And we don’t always need a solution either. Sometimes it’s just identifying the part that’s not working for you. And if you have a reason, that’s great. But the reason is great. But let us think about how to solve that.

Yeah. Come to the table with creative solutions.

Totally. OK, that’s awesome. Now, current landscape– and I know this is something you and I have talked about a lot. So I have an assumption of where you’ll go on this answer. But trends in the video world that you’ve been paying attention to?

Yeah, well, it’s 2025. So obviously, we have to talk about AI. The number one thing.

AI is interesting because there’s been little bits and pieces of it that have kind of been part of the workflow over the last few years. And the generative AI explosion that we’ve seen because that technology just took a huge leap recently.

Yes.

And it keeps growing.

It’s definitely a challenge from you got to learn all these different companies are coming out with their version of it. So it’s identifying– Like every five seconds. Yeah, which one do we work with? Which one is the best? And usually, it’s not one. It’s usually a combination of things to get where you need to go. So it’s putting that recipe together to get there. But it’s also made things more accessible for our clients

from a standpoint of they can do things themselves. Or they do something very quickly in AI and then expect that we can also do things just as quickly. So that sometimes leads to price pressure for us or time turnaround. Like, oh, this takes a week? No. What if you use AI? You can’t do it in two days.

But it’s not a perfect mix that way because there’s still a lot of creative thinking that has to go into what you’re getting. And there’s a lot of cross your fingers and hope you’re getting what you want when you type in a prompt and get something back. And

was thinking about this analogy a lot recently of what is the right analogy for AI in our world with clients and creatives. And this is where I landed on. You could tell me if it’s working or not.

It’s the difference between– like, if I go to a potluck, I take a scoop out of the neighbor’s crock pot. And it might be really good. And I’ll go back for seconds. Or it might be like 10% cat hair. I don’t know. I’m going to find out. But I know what I’m getting into when I go to that event. If I go to the bear for dinner, I’m expecting a lot different things to come down on the table for me to eat. So to be on my plate, I should say.

So it’s kind of like if a client does something on their own, it’s kind of like that potluck analogy where this is– I don’t know what I’m going to get. And if it’s really good, you’re excited about it. Yeah, it’s great. And if it’s not, who cares? But when it’s coming from an agency that you expect great things from,

you lose some of that forgiveness that you need to have with AI at this point. Because you don’t have control over everything that’s coming out of it.

Or you need to allow for that extra whatever it is, Genesee-Qua, that the agency applies to it to get it to the next level.

Right, yes.

your expectations of what you’re going to get are different. So I think you appreciate it in different ways, depending on where it’s coming from. And the biggest challenge for us is that AI still struggles with very specific feedback. I’ve found for me that the first couple of things I get are usually the best ones.

I agree.

And when I start trying to ask it to correct specifics within those things, it doesn’t understand how to do it yet. It’s going to get there. But we’re not there yet. And that’s what makes it a little challenging, because it’s a great tool. But you have to be ready to accept some trade-offs

I think the other thing is that, much like what you were talking about earlier with the different technologies, is there might be one AI tool that’s really great at voiceover generation, and one that’s really great at avatars, and one that’s really great at background filling in. But it doesn’t seem like there is one end-all, be-all solution right now that can kind of do it all. And so again, then you become this procurer of all of these different tools that have to be brought together, which just takes time and energy. It might mean that that thing that you’re creating, the voiceover, for example, gets generated really, really quickly once you do it. But then you’re having to go find all these other parts and pieces and kind of put them all together. It just still takes effort.

I think that’s another thing too, is yes, there are parts of it that save time, but there are also parts of it that are adding time in different ways than the traditional process.

Yeah. And voiceover is a good example too, because this is all an algorithm and there’s a lot of randomness or chaos built in. We’ve gotten voiceovers that are great. This is amazing. And you do it the exact same way with the exact same AI talent. And on the next one, and you’re like, well, this isn’t good. Why didn’t it work the same way again? So it’s hard to get that consistency out of AI. And I think the most interesting AI TV spots or examples that I’ve seen are usually short clips, and they usually don’t have a lot to do with each other. Or there’s one unifying element within them, but a lot of the rest of it changes, because I think that consistency is what is really still on the horizon for it.

Yeah, and I think there’s just a little bit of a lack of understanding of nuance. If it’s just one tiny thing you’re trying to change, it’s still going to go back and reread that whole thing.

So I totally hear that. It’s a challenging landscape, but it’s also fun. It’s fun to play around with. And I do think from an inspiration perspective,

when clients go and try things and say, here’s sort of what was in my head, but you guys go make it better, it can be helpful too, just from a directional standpoint.

Yeah, it’s great for concepting. It’s great for idea generation. And if you get lucky enough that what you come up with can end up as the final product as well, that’s great.

Well, is it even an episode of The Flooding Fact if we don’t talk about AI? I don’t think so. OK, last question.

And let’s keep it PC for the audience here. What’s your favorite memory of working on a shoot or a video,

anything like that over the past 20 years?

Favorite is– the favorite is the tough word. But the one I– I don’t know if it’s my favorite, but the one I always think about is we did a shoot for Dick’s Sporting Goods for a Father’s Day spot in New York City. And we went– and the plan was we were shooting on film. I think it might be one of the last things we shot on actual film. And we were going to shoot on film. I was going to get a quick digital intermediate to start working on all day. And then the plan was that we had a freelance editor in New York that was going to work through the night.

And then I was going to pick up the next day because it’s had to turn around very quickly. And what ended up happening is I did work on it all day. And then the night just kept going on. And I never actually got to stop. We ended up having both of us work at the same time to come up with three or four different edits by, I don’t know, four or five in the morning. And I remember going back to the hotel with Chris. And he’s like, all right, go get some sleep. Don’t worry. I will not bug you before 10 o’clock. Right? And I think it was 6.30 or 7 when my phone rang. And he’s like, we have feedback. I need you awake. So I slept for like three hours. Then we kept editing during the day. And then I had to check out of my room because I was flying back that night. And I just remember walking through the Apple store on Fifth Avenue just in a complete daze because Chris lost his charger and we needed to go get a new one. So that whole shoot– and there’s some other aspects of that that I won’t share on the podcast. But that whole 36 hour adventure kind of stands out.

You were probably recovering for about a week after that.

Yeah. And it’s one of those things that feels like an old advertising, old production kind of story that you don’t get as much nowadays. So that’s why it always sticks out for me.

No, it is because I can’t imagine asking someone to do that now. Like, I just don’t think I would feel right about it.

I don’t think I could do it now. You know? Yeah.

When you’re– There’s no way I could.

If you’re less than 30, you can handle those types of things.

Maybe. But– Maybe.

Definitely not those kids. These days it’s not happening.

All right, Craig. Well, this is great.