Flynn’s History, Entrepreneurial Advice and Likability in the Ad World

Katie Flynn: Welcome to the Flynn effect podcast where we dive deep into all things culture, industry news and history, all with a goal of helping our clients perform better. Okay, well, Kevin, Daniel Flynn.

Kevin Flynn: That’s me.

Katie Flynn: Welcome to the Flynn effect podcast. Thank you for being our first guest. Good to be here. We really appreciate it. Um, you know, I think when we get into the swing of this and we’ll probably be doing some reactions to current, you know, cultural events, things like that. But for this first episode, I thought that it would make sense to talk a little bit about the history of the agency and who better to do that than our longest running employee. How many years have you been involved in the agency?

Kevin Flynn: Well, it started in 1981 as a one year internship in between undergraduate school. And I wanted to go to graduate school, so I traced my roots back to 1981.

Katie Flynn: Okay, beautiful. And the agency has been around since 1967. So maybe you could just tell us a little bit about the founding and about grandpa, Jared, for me, but, but your, your father, right?

Kevin Flynn: Your grandfather, Jerry Flynn started, uh, he worked in the media business and he was a well-known toast master. He did a lot of public speaking, but he sold radio time and TV times where he was well aware of the media kind of kind of a deal. And at some point he decided, I want to put out my own shingle and do this on my own. So I remember, I think it was on the seventh floor of the temple building in downtown Rochester, opened up a little office, uh, not much bigger than the space we’re in right now and put it out there and got some accounts. He had automobile accounts, uh, some retail accounts like Ridge Lumber.

Katie Flynn: Okay.

Kevin Flynn: With a lanky planky, the lumber number you should know, 2667700.

Katie Flynn: Very memorable.

Kevin Flynn: So yeah. And our Cisha Heens. So he built a nice little business, um, doing that kind of, uh, uh, advertising and was well respected and liked and kept that going, uh, till around, I guess, 1980 when, uh, my sister, my older sister, Colleen joined him. Um, and they were basically a two person shop. And at this time the office was on 871 Monroe Avenue, really close to where 490 crosses over in the basement of that building. Cause the, the rent was very, very reasonable. And again, more, uh, retail type accounts. And then I was graduating undergraduate in 1981 and I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do, but I was pretty sure I wanted to go to graduate school and go back to Cornell for my, for a master’s degree. And I formulated this plan that I would go and get a master’s in communications, but I needed some experience. So I thought a one year internship at the agency would be a great start. And I was highly encouraged by my dad and Colleen and they paid me, I don’t like to brag, but it was a whopping $25 a week. Basically it was gas money and it was enough where it wasn’t enough. So I had to also wait tables at night. So just paying your dues very early on in your career.

Katie Flynn: Early hustling.

Kevin Flynn: Yep. And so after that, uh, I did in fact go to grad school and I spent a year and a half there and got a master’s in communications. And came back to 871 Monroe Avenue, uh, there and back to the agency. And at that point, uh, my dad really kind of wanted to retire. He still is going to do a little bit here and there, but mostly he wanted to retire. And so we engineered a 10 year buyout, uh, between Colleen and me.

Katie Flynn: Yeah.

Kevin Flynn: And so he was a great cheerleader and, and was basically until the day he died, I always would lean on him for advice. And that’s funny after all these years since he’s passed, there are times when I have a particular tricky little problem or issue. And I was like, boy, I wish I could ask my dad about this, but

Katie Flynn: I bet. You know, we’ve been using a quote from Jerry in many of our new business conversations as of late, which was the difficult is no problem. The impossible might take us the weekend. Um, and I believe you, you let us know that that was something that he had said. Um, did he bring that spirit into the agency from the very beginning?

Kevin Flynn: Yeah. Uh, you know, we always, the advertising business is deadline driven as you know. So we were always working to get things done. So you never wanted to say no to a client. I mean, sometimes you have to, but, but by and large, we want to get stuff done and move the ball forward and help build our clients business. So super important to have that mindset.

Katie Flynn: Awesome. And, and so what year did Chris join you?

Kevin Flynn: Now I want to say he went through a similar program that I did.

Katie Flynn: Yeah.

Kevin Flynn: I think in 1986, he started to intern. Yeah. He interned with us. And, um, I think he, he also worked a second job and he, and he was going to school at Brockport, he was finishing up and we actually lived together. Uh, I had the downstairs, it was a duplex. I had the downstairs apartment and he had the upstairs apartment. So, so we were pretty close.

Katie Flynn: I’ve seen the prank videos. I think those would get a lot of play on TikTok these days.

Kevin Flynn: Uh, there’s a famous garage door prank video that he did that was very successful. Someday. Yes, you should. That could be a tollpot guys, but he got me good.

Katie Flynn: Yeah.

Kevin Flynn: So, but, so he joined in 86 and so the three of us worked together, Colleen, Chris, and myself. And for a short period of time, my brother Kerry did a little bit, uh, a stint with us, but you know, the, the business had its ups and downs. Uh, we had some successful years and some other years where we were sliding back. And so I think it was 1992 at that point, we were struggling as an agency. It’s like, are we going to keep this thing going? Uh, we were, you know, if you did a trial liquidation analysis, we certainly owed more money than we could take in and we were sort of living on cashflow. So he’s dangerous. And I think that summer of 92, my sister said, well, you know, I think I’m opt out. And so she did and went into sales, uh, at a radio station. Uh, and then Chris and I were there. We’re trying to make it work. And oh my gosh, we just, should we close up shop? I think I sent out one resume looking for a real job somewhere. Just one. And then we got a call to pitch this little sporting goods chain in Binghamton, New York. They had seven stores. It was called Dick’s clothing and sporting goods. And we pitched it against the incumbent agency. I think they were named Roseanne Saul and Hart Conway, I believe at the time. So the three of us went at it. Chris and I worked our butts off, came up with a spec campaign, a spec jingle, went down there and pitched like crazy and in Binghamton and crossed our fingers. And we were hoping this might be the thing that got us out of our deep hole that we were in financially. And lo and behold, uh, we were fortunate enough to win that business and figure it out and as everyone knows, Dick’s sporting goods has been one of America’s great, uh, retail success stories. And we were able to hang onto them for about four years. And during that time, Dick’s grew rapidly and we got to do some great creative. We hired Terry Bradshaw as a spokesperson, Jimmy Johnson and others as well.

Katie Flynn: Yeah.

Kevin Flynn: And I think during that four years, they were up to maybe about 75 stores. So it got us out, it got us back to profitability, got us into the black, uh, both personally and professionally. So Chris and I had a really good base and then got a phone call. Well, we’re going to go look at some other agencies. We think we need a bigger agency. So that was kind of a shock to the system and we still pitched for it. We did very well. We came in second, which is first loser, as you know. But I think we impressed them that we hung in there and I think that would pay dividends later on. Uh, so Chris and I needed to reinvent ourselves and we were out there figuring out what we were going to do. We moved in with another agency for a period of about three months or so, trying to get our, our feet back on the ground and figure things out. And then lo and behold, uh, Lou Angora and Ray Martino were in somewhat of a similar situation and we had some meetings. And so that was a different agency and they were like, what if we pulled our resources together? They were a little bit, they, we were good in broadcast and media buying and retail, they were better in some print and public relations. So it was a good synergy with those, with those areas there. So, uh, February 1st of 1997, I believe it was, we came together. This was about six months or so after losing the Dick sporting goods business. And from the get-go that went really well. We ended up buying Lou out after about nine months. We didn’t always agree on, on everything. And so he wanted to stay a certain size and we really wanted to grow. So we came to an amiable agreement and, uh, and worked through that after nine months. And so Chris Ray and I worked together as equal partners for 20 years and had a great run and Ray retired in early 2017. And also going back to the Dick sporting goods stuff, our experience in the sporting goods category got us this client very early on when we were Martino Flynn, uh, for a company called sneaker stadium. And they were really nice group of folks. And I think they had about 30 or 40 stores in New Jersey, New York, that area. And, uh, so that business we held on to for a couple of years until they got bought out by another company. And then coincidentally shortly thereafter, Dick sporting goods called and said, you know, we got a few projects we might like to work with you Flynn boys on. So got the call from Ed stack and we’ve still do business with them right to this day, which is really good, but, but our whole client base got a lot more diverse. So getting Dick sporting goods, I would say to people, the, two best things that probably happened in my advertising career was winning the Dick sporting goods business way back one. And the second best thing was losing the Dick sporting goods. Cause it, it forced us to become a better agency, to be more diverse, to not be so reliant on just one client. So, so kind of fun that way.

Katie Flynn: A hard one lesson, if you will, which makes a lot of sense. And I think, you know, if there are people who might listen, who, you know, are going to start their own agencies or even just their own business, there are a few lessons that I think any entrepreneur learns the hard way over their time. So are there any of that stick out in your head, you know, beyond even the Dick sporting goods example of things in which you had to reinvent yourself or the agency, you know, in the last, however many 35, 40 years.

Kevin Flynn: Right. 40 plus, but it’s constantly evolving. So the ability to change with the times, like when I first got in the business, there was no internet. So it was a very, in a lot of ways, it was a much easier business because we’d put out a message and it would be very hard for you to avoid us. Cause there was only three TV stations, local radio stations. You know, now consumers have this choice. Now we want to have a dialogue with them. And we’ve had to evolve as an agency. We have job titles here, you know, data analytics and SEO and all these kinds of things that absolutely never existed. I think in ways, it’s, it’s good and bad, probably more good than bad, but, but you’ve really had to evolve. The other things, you know, for an entrepreneur starting out, the old joke is, Hey, it only took me 10 years to become an overnight success is that it takes time. And everyone looks at a chart of, Oh, I’m going to just grow my business like this, but it’s like, like this. And you have to be ready for the peaks and valleys and, and you have to watch the, uh, I say this a lot, if you watch the pennies, the dollars tend to take care of themselves. And it’s really important and you know, hope is not a strategy. So you have to react, but you also have to be optimistic about the future and believe in the future. That’s really important. And another thing as we grew from, you know, it started as a one man shop with my dad and then it was just Chris and me and and my sister. So kind of smaller. And as, as we grew, the other thing that really learned was important is that culture basically trumps everything that if you’re to be a really good leader, I think you have to have a culture within your organization that’s nourishing challenging, I don’t know, a whole lot of things, but it’s gotta be mostly really positive because you’re trying to get people to, to work in and go in a certain direction. And the wrong culture can just, you know, a toxic culture is just awful. So I think we’ve always had a, a good culture. I think we’ve improved over the years and gotten better at it and really realize that, you know, culture trumps process, strategy, all those kinds of things. Cause if you’ve got people working towards a goal who are aligned in what your mission and values and where your objectives are, then you’ve got a chance to make all those other things work really well.

Katie Flynn: I totally agree. And yeah, I’ve been here for, I believe, almost eight years, February 1st, which went by very, very quickly. And even then it was a good culture, but I feel like we took a turn maybe six years ago that went from good to great. And it’s something we hear a lot, you know, from people that we work with. And even clients notice that, you know, we have a fair amount of balance and that we seem to like each other. And I do think that makes the work just that much better.

Kevin Flynn: Absolutely agree. I’m back. I will tell you, it’s how eight years is pretty, pretty fast that it went by. And in your first year, I remember you reported to me, as you did for, I think, I don’t know, the first five or six years.

Katie Flynn: Yeah.

Kevin Flynn: Uh, and in the first year I was, uh, almost honest with you to a fault when I told you all the good, the bad, and the ugly about a family business and business overall. I, you’re for dad and my partner Chris was like, man, you’re going to scare her.

Katie Flynn: You did. I cried.

Kevin Flynn: You did. And I wasn’t trying to scare you, but I wanted your eyes to be absolutely wide open and not see the agency world through rose colored glasses. Cause I love the agency business, but it’s not the easiest of things. And I love the family business, but that’s not the easiest of things either.

Katie Flynn: A thousand percent. And there are two pieces of advice you’ve given me over the years on those fronts. So from a family business perspective, you basically said you’re going, you’re going to be under a microscope. So you better be the first one here in the last one to leave, at least for the first few years until you have built up that respect and pre COVID it was like you very much saw when people were in their seats right now. It’s a little bit different now, but it was something I really took forward. And I was like, I don’t want to give anybody an excuse to think, you know, I’m little miss Napo baby over here. Who’s not having to put her share of the work in. And then the other thing, you know, just in terms of entrepreneurship and business to your point about the peaks and the valleys, I think one valuable piece of advice you gave me over the years was to say very much so in the middle, right? Like you can get excited about the great stuff. You can be disappointed about the not so great stuff, but try as much as you can to be measured and hang out here because if you let yourself go on that ride, Ooh, it can be rough.

Kevin Flynn: You don’t want to get too high. You don’t want to get too low. It doesn’t mean you can’t celebrate those victories. And, and, but, but you have to be careful. And, and the other thing, I know we’ve talked about is that not only for ownership, but also managers, people really look at to us for cues. How are things going? It’s like, you know, your parents always, you always knew if your parents were fighting, right? So you knew if the owners were in disarray or in disagreement or whatever. And the managers, I mean, people watch them. So that’s important to project the right image.

Katie Flynn: Of course, of course. Now, when you were running the media and the account service team, right? So those were the departments that, that reported it up through you and new business. Right. Of course. You know, you, you always have very high expectations for your teams. You were very direct and honest about what you were looking for. And I feel like you have over the years have had some very, very different relationships with clients that have carried through, you know, into now on the client services front, even if you’re not, you know, in that particular department, but you are a person who interfaces with clients. What do you think are the most important things to bring forward when you are building a relationship with a client as a business owner or, or somebody who works at an agency?

Kevin Flynn: Well, for both, I think it’s, it’s, it’s kind of stupidly simple. Do they like you and do they trust you? And by liking you, that’s not like you have to be the best friends in the world, but you have to have mutual respect. There’s a saying, we it’s where we go. Clients usually get what they deserve, which sounds kind of like a flipper mark, but great clients will help you make their business better. They’ll share lots of information. They’ll be honest with you. You know, they don’t mind hurting your feelings. I hope they do it a nice way, but they’ll tell you they won’t let something stew. They’ll bring it up. Do you direct have that kind of collaborative relationship that, that makes it work and you should have fun working together. Hopefully that, that personal touch, it’s a relationship business and it’s, and it really matters. And then the second part is do they trust you? So you got to deliver the goods. You have to be surround yourself with really smart, great people and give them what they want. So you know how that sort of, it’s kind of a cliche expression. What’s your, what’s your super power? Sure. No, I said, what would my super power be? I think, I think it involves hiring people who are smarter than I am, you know, especially in the various disciplines that, that we work for for our clients. So I think that’s really important. And you know, you can’t do it all. So I do think having really smart people that you trust and that your clients will trust and that they’ll like is, is really important. So it’s really simple. Do they like you and do they trust you? It’s a relationship business.

Katie Flynn: A thousand percent. I know one thing we always say is we want to be the best part of our clients days. Right. And I think that came from, from you originally too.

Kevin Flynn: Our agency meeting with our clients should be their best meeting of the day, week, whatever, cause we’re the fun stuff.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. We’re, yeah, we’re supposed to be right. And we do have a, there’s a client I work really closely with when we get to do a creative assignment, which, you know, we work in a number of different disciplines, but she’s always like, this is the best. This is why I love marketing. This stuff is so fun to me. I love the puns. I love looking at the design portion because you know, we work in a very creative field. It’s interesting to see what, what everybody comes up with, which reminds me. So on the early days before we scaled up, right, we’ve been anywhere north of 50 people in the past right now. We’re sitting at about 25 with three core competencies that we’ve been working on for the past three years. But at one point, you were actually copywriting for Dick’s Sporting Goods, right? So.

Kevin Flynn: We did everything. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we were talent in the TV spots, all kinds of stuff. Yeah.

Katie Flynn: Can you talk a little bit about your favorite, your favorite work over the years? Like is there one example that sticks out to you as you had the most fun or it had the most impact?

Kevin Flynn: The initial Terry Bradshaw campaign that we did really put not only Dick’s Sporting Goods on the map, which was the primary goal, obviously, to get our client, they wanted to be a national big box retailer. And they were this great little regional train, but chain. But you know, vendors like, yeah, we’re out of Binghamton, New York, yeah, whatever. So Terry really helped put them on the map. And I wrote a lot of that campaign along with John Munyon years ago. And that’s when we first got real notoriety and we went to New York to transfer the film and we fly in there and back. And it’s like, oh, we’re like, Chris and I were looking at each other. We’re like real ad guys now. And it really felt like we were, we were getting there. And, and Dick’s Sporting Goods is a very aggressive advertiser. So they like to spend money on media. So it was all over the place. And they all knew we did it. And so that was really exciting.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. That’s awesome.

Kevin Flynn: Yeah. That was our coming out party in a way.

Katie Flynn: I love it. I love it. Well, um, I think I’ve asked, asked you everything I had to ask Kevin, anything else in terms of advice for entrepreneurs, people who are in the agency world, is there anything that you would want to share?

Kevin Flynn: Well, I think for, for Flynn, I just, I’m proud that we’ve stuck it out this long to my recollection or knowledge. I believe we’re the longest tenured agency in the Rochester market that’s still continuing out there right now. And it’s great to see a third generation in and, and I’m hoping that it, that it lasts. I mean, for me, real success would be that, that Flynn lives on way after I’m, I’m gone. But so that part’s exciting for me. Yeah. Advice to entrepreneurs. You know, you gotta be optimistic, work your butt off, your tail off, but you gotta make sure that you enjoy what you’re doing. One of the coolest things about the agency business, at least for me, was that clients are different. I have to learn so many different things. The Ami Channel media stuff is so different. So you have to learn more about that. People are different. So it’s really interesting because if you’re a curious person, you know, you’re going to learn a lot and you’re always going to be learning throughout there. I remember Ray Martino would sometimes talk about, his mom goes, why can’t you be a mailman? Like your uncle, whoever it was, Frankie, you know, that’s a very steady certain job. Ray goes, and I agree with him. It’s like, I’m going to do the same route every day, five days a week. It was like, are you kidding me? That would be like torture. So I do love the idea that in the agency business that I got to learn so much and I was excited about it.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. Well, thank you. You’ve also taught me a lot and I hope to carry the legacy forward. Um, and I’m sure we’re going to see you again. So thanks for joining us today.

Kevin Flynn: My pleasure.