Craft Meets Tech: Finding the Human Edge in Modern Creative

Katie Flynn: I have the pleasure of introducing Flynn’s newest creative director, Jason Lucas. Yes, round of applause from everyone in the room. You know, just to both embarrass you a little bit and casually get some of your kind of story out there, a sliver of your story. Jason brings big agency experience from BBDO, publicis, is publicis?

Jason Lucas: I say publicis.

Katie Flynn: You do?

Jason Lucas: Yeah. Okay. Not French.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, BMOYNR. But what really stood out in our conversations is your approach to creative and technology and leadership certainly. And you know, I’ve gotten a great glimpse into that the last couple of months, where I guess like six weeks. So we are gonna dig in today on what you’ve learned, a little bit what you believe about the future of creative and maybe why you chose Flynn.

Jason Lucas: Sounds good.

Katie Flynn: All right, let’s dive in first with this sort of like big agency to independent shift, because it is certainly a shift.

Jason Lucas: Yeah.

Katie Flynn: And with working at those big, you know, global agencies even, what do you think you took away from those experiences that you’re excited to be bringing to more of an independent agency? And I know you worked at other small independents and you know, SaaS companies in between, but.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, there’s a lot of opportunity at big agencies. You’ve got bigger budgets, more national accounts, but a lot of layers. Sure. A lot of struggles to get things done. You know, and really one of the last ones I was at, there was a situation where they were trying to figure out how to just squeeze an hour out of every single person everywhere and just put you on projects you didn’t even know. You know, it started to become not really great.

Katie Flynn: Got it.

Jason Lucas: So yeah, small agencies, obviously, much closer to the clients. We can do better work at that realm. You know, I feel like the more I know about what’s going on with their business, the better work we can create.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, absolutely. And not that I have personally ever worked at a large agency, but I would imagine there’s a little more flexibility to when you are in those situations where you’re like, if we just put five more hours into this thing, like we’re gonna nail it. To your point about, you know, red tape and hierarchy and all the things.

Jason Lucas: Well, I mean, they definitely have an ability to kind of move people around and, you know, really put a lot of firepower against different projects.

Katie Flynn: Yeah.

Jason Lucas: But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, it’s really trying to really do the best work we can.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, pros and cons to both.

Jason Lucas: Pros and cons.

Katie Flynn: I mean, sure. I’m curious just what made you say yes to an independent and Rochester-based agency. Because that’s kind of the next step here is trying to get you to move over to this coast.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’ll sound like a thing that everybody might say, but it really is people. You know, at the end of the day, clients come and go and, you know, to find a group of people that you can work with that you want to see every day and do great work with is really, you know, what I was looking for.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, I’m with you. You walk in here and there’s lots of smiles. That’s what we aim for.

Jason Lucas: Well, and everyone helping each other out. Yes. You know, I see a lot of that. You know, there’s not, obviously there’s none of the red tape, but it really is, you know, I see people go out of the way to help to get things done, which is really great.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, it’s very tight knit. You know, we’re like 22-ish people and so you’ve got to be like that for sure. All right, let’s talk about creativity in regulated industries because we typically work in highly regulated industries, such as healthcare, financial services, insurance, all those are my brands that we talk about. And I think sometimes, and this might be a generalization, but creatives might run from that more regulated space just because it feels a little more restrictive. And, you know, we, during the interview process, talked a lot about the type of work we did. So I’m just curious, like, you’re leaning into it. Is there a reason? Do you like the challenge?

Jason Lucas: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, creativity comes out of like the box you’re put in and the tighter the box, sometimes the better the creativity. Yeah. I think for these types of industries that we’re talking about, it’s about also finding empathy, which is bigger than just like, what’s a crazy idea we can do? It’s really trying to get into the mindset of each of the people that are, you know, working with these industries and finding out what makes them tick and get in there.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, I’m with you. I think that goes back to authenticity. I just had a conversation with Ashley Rifflin about what we’re doing in the media space and, you know, AI generated content versus more authentic. And I do think people are gonna crave more of that, like true heartfelt getting, and not necessarily like sad emotion, it might be elated emotion, whatever it looks like, but really making that feel true.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, agree.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, good. Do you think creativity is harder in regulated industries? I know you just said, sometimes the smaller the box, the more creative you can actually be, but with a bigger consumer brand, is it easier to come up with an idea?

Jason Lucas: No, I mean, sometimes, I mean, having unlimited budget is its own problem. You know, I think trying to find a good idea on a tight budget in a tight box, again, creatively, is really, that’s a challenge, but I think when you get there, everyone knows you’ve done it. You know, I think it’s hard to, you know, sometimes you can have, everyone can have an opinion about the idea, but I think when you have something that is very clear in terms of what we need to achieve, you’ll know you’ve gotten there when you hit the end of it.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, and that’s one thing I appreciate too about us being a more, you know, performance-based shop is like really getting into the details of did something work or not, like having those metrics available. I mean, it’s awesome if you get to unveil a campaign and be like, it’s just objectively a good campaign, right? But it’s nice to have the metrics to back it up too.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, 100%.

Katie Flynn: All right, cool. Let’s talk about tech a little bit, our, you know, mandatory AI session. Because this is something that came up while we were talking too, is just this sort of like tech-powered creativity, right? So what do you think that actually looks like in practice as a creative leader?

Jason Lucas: It’s scale in terms of ideas. I mean, the ability to kind of individually, beyond a brief, beyond what a strategist can, you know, provide, I can go deep on my own and kind of find little nooks and crannies. And normally I would have done that through just web searches, but it’s cursory. And so the ability to just go deeper and deeper to find out exactly, you know, something different that will make this really stand out is what I think it really empowers.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, no, I mean, it makes sense. And as we’re talking about specifically like AI changes to the process, like that does seem to be the big selling point, if you will, is like freeing up the time to focus on the idea, fill the idea, like dig really deep on that one idea versus, you know, being kind of like broad, inch deep.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, it’s like a cursory thing that everyone else would find. And it’s really hunting down each of those ideas to kind of figure out where, like chasing it down to see where it really goes.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, yeah, and that makes total sense as a creative director. I guess on the execution side too, like do you think that the tools out there presently to kind of, we’re gonna call them generative AI tools are beneficial or is there still room for improvement?

Jason Lucas: Well, there’s obviously room for improvement, but you know, of course there’s an amazing ability now for any creative to sit and take something from concept to completion and show how it’ll really work. And I think that’s phenomenal. You know, it certainly has got glitches, certainly it lacks some humanity, but if you’re trying to just show how great an idea could be, you have tools now that are so incredible.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, I think that’s helpful on the client side too, because sometimes clients are trying to describe something to us that lives in their head, that it’s very difficult to translate that down on paper. So even if clients are able to then say, hey, I just like put this into mid journey really quickly and like, it’s not this, but like it helps to illustrate what I’m talking about if we can make those connections better.

Jason Lucas: Well, and you know, there’s this, you know, in the industry there’s demo love and this idea that you’ll see a thing and you’re like, yes, we’re done. And so there is the kind of fear of like, I’ve shown you a commercial that was shot with no shooting.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, yeah.

Jason Lucas: And they’re like, great, let’s run it. And it’s like, we can’t. Yeah, we can’t own this. It’s not real. Yeah, we have to kind of like take it to completion.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, no, that makes sense. It comes with a big fat asterisk and caveat.

Jason Lucas: I guess really we should be putting watermarks on everything that we do.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, something like that for sure. All right, I got some rapid fire questions for you. Are you ready?

Jason Lucas: Let’s do it.

Katie Flynn: Okay, favorite campaign you’ve worked on?

Jason Lucas: FedEx I’d say.

Katie Flynn: Oh, that’s very interesting.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, it’s just, I mean, again, lots of great budgets, but a really great client who used to work in an agency.

Katie Flynn: Okay.

Jason Lucas: And so like totally knew what they wanted.

Katie Flynn: The agency folks love that.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, yeah. And just really like, you know, understood how to buy creative and what it could do for the brand, so.

Katie Flynn: Awesome, okay. Most overrated marketing trend right now?

Jason Lucas: AI.

Katie Flynn: Yeah, I know.

Jason Lucas: It’s the, you know, the give and the take, yeah.

Katie Flynn: Yeah. What about most underrated?

Jason Lucas: Oh.

Katie Flynn: Something you’d like to see more of?

Jason Lucas: Handmade things. You know, clay, drawing.

Katie Flynn: Oh, I was gonna ask you, like, you mean like claymation?

Jason Lucas: I mean like doing it the hard way. Yeah, exactly. And you can tell, I mean, it’s just really the output at the end really has, it feels so different.

Katie Flynn: Yes. Do you, were you at the staff meeting where somebody showed us, it was a French grocery store that did sort of like a claymation, oh, I’ll have to show it to you. It was so good. I was like tearing up. It was very sweet. All right, if you weren’t in advertising, what would you be doing? Have you always been in advertising by the way, like straight out of school?

Jason Lucas: Yeah, yeah. Again, I like working with my hands. I like good working. So I would, home renovation, you know, building things. I really love all that. I’ve got a whole garage full of tools.

Katie Flynn: Okay, I love that for you. I was gonna say maybe musician. I know you’re passionate about music.

Jason Lucas: I do like music. I don’t play any instruments.

Katie Flynn: You’re not good at it?

Jason Lucas: I’m good at listening to it.

Katie Flynn: Love it. Last thing, one piece of advice for young creatives.

Jason Lucas: Gosh, that’s a good one. I know, I didn’t mean to put the only gun on.

Katie Flynn: Why, you have downer advice?

Jason Lucas: No, no, no. Piece of advice for creatives. I really, the important thing is to…

Katie Flynn: Take your time. And I would say for people who are just getting into the industry, right? It’s an interesting time. So if you have any advice that you would give to them.

Jason Lucas: I have no advice for anyone.

Katie Flynn: Not really, I’m totally jaded and just get out while you can.

Jason Lucas: No, no, I’m trying to think of some of the stuff I was talking to Shannon about. Yeah. As asking a million questions. I feel like there’s, everyone puts as much information in the brief as they possibly can, but you still don’t know until you start to wrap your head around how you’re gonna get to that solution. So asking as many questions as you possibly can before you start, because you’re gonna save time. And you’ll find, in those conversations, you’re gonna end up finding a solution. Something will come out and that’ll be the nugget that you can take and build on.

Katie Flynn: I had a conversation with Brad Garrett recently, where he was kind of talking about his process and he said, “The first thing I do is just research, “research, research, research, “just fill the bucket in my mind “and then kind of let it just percolate.” And I think we’re in a time in ad agencies right now, like where everybody wants everything today. And so that makes that so difficult, but as a best practice, like if you can allow for some rumination and have that curiosity, like you are gonna, you’re just gonna get a better product out of it.

Jason Lucas: Yeah, 100%.

Katie Flynn: Awesome. All right, Jason, any final words?

Jason Lucas: No, I mean, I feel like this went a lot better than the last podcast I was on.

Katie Flynn: What was that? I’m gonna look it up.

Jason Lucas: I had to eat a lot of chicken wings. I don’t wanna really get into it.

Katie Flynn: Oh,